A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

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NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Fri May 18, 2018 11:59 am

One cylinder head removed, lifters deemed to be "ok", however a borescope exam found damage to the cam (second lobe up from rear most lobe) which required removal of the other cylinder head. My suspicion is a collapsed MDS lifter which never recovered from eco mode and tore things up. I'm being taken care of and that is all I can ask. More to follow as I know.....

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Retired BLM Rig
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Retired BLM Rig » Fri May 18, 2018 2:58 pm

NickTF wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:59 am
One cylinder head removed, lifters deemed to be "ok", however a borescope exam found damage to the cam (second lobe up from rear most lobe) which required removal of the other cylinder head. My suspicion is a collapsed MDS lifter which never recovered from eco mode and tore things up. I'm being taken care of and that is all I can ask. More to follow as I know.....
At least they found some conclusive evidence. Ask them to closely inspect the pushrod tips and the rocker arm to valve stem contact surface as well. Also there are four oil control solenoids, one for each MDS cylinder. When activated they redirect oil pressure away from those lifters and dump it. If one of your solenoids got stuck that could be why you had noise and low oil pressure at idle. I would ask them to replace the solenoid on that cylinder, if indeed it is an MDS cylinder.

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Reloaderguy
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri May 18, 2018 3:02 pm

In speaking with Nick, I do not have low oil pressure. In fact, all of my pressure look healthy and the truck drives correctly. I guess the up side is I have another 40K miles and three years left my warranty. I also called FCA and started a case with them. The person I spoke with suggested I go to another dealer, I asked if they'd like to pay for the three hour drive each way to get there.
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Retired BLM Rig
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Retired BLM Rig » Fri May 18, 2018 3:43 pm

Unfortunately rural living does have its drawbacks. I used to live in a place that took four hours to get to the nearest airport.

Here’s something for owners of late 14 - early 15 trucks to be aware of.
https://chrysler.oemdtc.com/TSB/09-002-15A.pdf

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Reloaderguy
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Fri May 18, 2018 4:49 pm

My truck was built 12/15 and is not a cold start knock. The sound starts at full operating temperature.
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NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Fri May 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Retired BLM Rig wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:58 pm
NickTF wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:59 am
One cylinder head removed, lifters deemed to be "ok", however a borescope exam found damage to the cam (second lobe up from rear most lobe) which required removal of the other cylinder head. My suspicion is a collapsed MDS lifter which never recovered from eco mode and tore things up. I'm being taken care of and that is all I can ask. More to follow as I know.....
At least they found some conclusive evidence. Ask them to closely inspect the pushrod tips and the rocker arm to valve stem contact surface as well. Also there are four oil control solenoids, one for each MDS cylinder. When activated they redirect oil pressure away from those lifters and dump it. If one of your solenoids got stuck that could be why you had noise and low oil pressure at idle. I would ask them to replace the solenoid on that cylinder, if indeed it is an MDS cylinder.
Thanks for the advice and I will use it when I speak to them tomorrow!

NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Tue May 22, 2018 8:11 am

"It's a truck motor, that's just how they sound......"

I'm trying to get the service writer to forward the list of parts they intend to replace. The cam and lifters is obvious. I'm mostly concerned about the oil control valve/solenoid.

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Reloaderguy
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue May 22, 2018 12:26 pm

I got hooked up with service manager who read me the star case notes. There's no record of a tech rep inspection or injector echoes caused by my lift. Everything after the lifter change was probably bullshit.

I suspect I have the beginning stages of the problems Nick is experiencing.
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MJockey
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by MJockey » Tue May 22, 2018 1:38 pm

Weird to see a chunk missing from the cam lobe. I wounder what would cause that?


NickTF wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:11 am
"It's a truck motor, that's just how they sound......"

I'm trying to get the service writer to forward the list of parts they intend to replace. The cam and lifters is obvious. I'm mostly concerned about the oil control valve/solenoid.

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2018 Power Wagon, Amp Powersteps, Bed Step, Pedal Commander.

NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Tue May 22, 2018 1:50 pm

My suspicion is the MDS lifter was not properly actuating out of economy cylinder deactivation mode. As a result the lifter roller was probably losing contact with the cam lobe and slamming down at that same location repeatedly when commanded to v8 mode.

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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by TwinStick » Tue May 22, 2018 2:44 pm

How much $$$ is the oil control valve/solenoid ??? For peace of mind, i would probably pay to have it replaced, even though they should do it for free. WTF, another electronic high tech part that was supposed to make things better & more efficient, causes bu-ku damage when it fails !!! :angry:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Tue May 22, 2018 2:51 pm

TwinStick wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:44 pm
How much $$$ is the oil control valve/solenoid ??? For peace of mind, i would probably pay to have it replaced, even though they should do it for free. WTF, another electronic high tech part that was supposed to make things better & more efficient, causes bu-ku damage when it fails !!! :angry:
Mds and any other “active displacement” technology which cuts oil out to lifters is a terribly stupid idea imho.

scoutpappa
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by scoutpappa » Tue May 22, 2018 6:52 pm

what do the bearings look like?

NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Wed May 23, 2018 6:56 am

Well looks like i'm getting 16 new lifters (glad they're not just doing one side as is the case of reloader), new cam, and all the assorted gaskets. Still trying to get an answer on the oil control solenoid.

I specifically asked them if there were any signs of wear with the valve stems, rocker arms, or pushrods. I was told there isn't any at this point. I wouldn't suspect there to be any issues with the cam bearings. I've been around far worse cam failures and have seen the cam bearings survive with little to no effect. I did an oil change last week and screened the oil through one of our old #80 sieves at work. I didn't see any signs of metal flakes/pieces etc. Hopefully I will have the truck back in the next few days and from what I gather I will have a full report from the dealer on what was observed, etc. etc. I've been talking with the service writer throughout this process and he's been wonderful to work with!

NickTF
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by NickTF » Wed May 23, 2018 8:35 am

I was told the "issue was with the cam" and that lifter replacement was precautionary. I was informed the solenoid was thoroughly inspected and determined not to be the problem. I even offered to pay to replace the solenoid myself. They felt confident it was not the issue. Time will tell if they were right. I do have to say that alteast they've agreed to address this issue and replace all 16 lifters not just the two on the problem cylinder.

scoutpappa
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by scoutpappa » Thu May 24, 2018 6:44 pm

Just with the way the cam lobes look I would expect some evidence of metal in the oil. Granted I deal with older engines that delaminate cam bearings more often (in current times) I would still want them changed as well as the MDS solenoid. If you're going to do a top end job, you might as well do the whole thing. I'm saying you but what I really mean is don't let them half a$$ it.

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Reloaderguy
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Re: A Tale of Diagnostic Woe

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:05 pm

After the 8 hour drive to the new dealer the engine is singing a loud song. They're tearing it down tomorrow.
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