Winch rope extension question

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Woodscavenger
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Winch rope extension question

Post by Woodscavenger » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:13 am

Have searched, browsed, looked, googled and amazoned.

I want roughly a 50- 100' synthetic winch rope extension. On amazon I can find 3/8" synthetic "winch ropes" for about $100. They have a loop on one end but a metal lug on the other to bolt up to the winch drum. When I look for ropes with loops at both ends the prices dramatically shoot up and the prices usually double. Am I missing something? Is it that difficult to create a double loop or is there no demand?

Do I just by the first option then create a DIY loop on the lug end of the rope?

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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by NovA ProspekT » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:56 am

AMAZON can sometimes have inconsistent pricing depending on which vendor has a certain product in-stock. Which lines are you looking at exactly? Are you comparing apples to apples?


Here are a few options:
$305.00 - Master-Pull Classic Synthetic Winch Line, No Hook, 3/8" x 100'
$305.00 - Master-Pull Classic Synthetic Winch Line Extension, No Hook, 3/8" x 100'

$510.00 - Master-Pull SUPERLINE Synthetic Winch Line, No Hook, 3/8" x 100'
$485.00 - Master-Pull SUPERLINE Synthetic Winch Line Extension, No Hook, 3/8" x 100'

Viking Offroad Synthetic Winch Line Extension 3/8" x 50'
WARN Spydura Synthetic Winch Line Extension 3/8" x 50'

A word of caution, NEVER use anything metal(shackle, hook, etc.) to connect winch line/rope together.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by verdesardog » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:05 am

but the less expensive one and splice your own loop on the end..... :cheers:
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Low_Sky » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:22 pm

You'll have a hard time finding an extension among the importers selling synthetic ropes on Amazon. Look for a shop that sells winch ropes and you'll have plenty of options to choose from.

If you're going to be using synthetic winch rope, you should have the tools and know-how to splice it. If the best deal you can find is on a main line (eye at one end, and a drum attachment at the other), buy it and splice your own eye.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by coder » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:40 pm

NovA ProspekT wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:56 am
A word of caution, NEVER use anything metal(shackle, hook, etc.) to connect winch line/rope together.
What are you supposed to use then? If you use a damper or two not sure why this is a problem please advise.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Low_Sky » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 am

coder wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:40 pm
NovA ProspekT wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:56 am
A word of caution, NEVER use anything metal(shackle, hook, etc.) to connect winch line/rope together.
What are you supposed to use then? If you use a damper or two not sure why this is a problem please advise.
Zip ties ‘n’ duct tape.

Or soft shackles. Or loop the eyes together with a wood dowel, rolled up magazine or newspaper stuck through. I wouldn’t say “never”, but a screw pin shackle wouldn’t be my first choice to join two ropes because of the likelihood of loading the shackle sideways.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:13 am

Low_Sky wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 am
coder wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:40 pm
NovA ProspekT wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:56 am
A word of caution, NEVER use anything metal(shackle, hook, etc.) to connect winch line/rope together.
What are you supposed to use then? If you use a damper or two not sure why this is a problem please advise.
Zip ties ‘n’ duct tape.

Or soft shackles. Or loop the eyes together with a wood dowel, rolled up magazine or newspaper stuck through. I wouldn’t say “never”, but a screw pin shackle wouldn’t be my first choice to join two ropes because of the likelihood of loading the shackle sideways.
I was wondering the same thing. Shackles are easily cross loaded when joining a winch rope and extension (or strap) and can become a rather heavy projectile if they break. However, it is generally accepted in other types of applications (high angle rigging/climbing) that joining soft rigging with soft rigging (soft eyelet winch rope with soft shackle / rope through a sling) should be avoided because the union creates friction which in turn reduces the load rating. The eyelet through eyelet you mentioned is essentially a square knot with an obstruction to keep it from tightening. Square knots reduce the breaking strength of the line (at the bends) by 45% (eyelets in straps are often reinforced).
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Low_Sky » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:25 pm

On the square knot, if the strength is reduced by half(ish) where the line is doubled (at the eye), aren’t you right back where you started.

My extension has chafe guards in the eyes and my soft shackles are a lot stronger than my winch rope, so chafing through my rigging isn’t something that worries me. I haven’t had to do any really hard pulls with the winch, but the light winching I have done hasn’t put any significant wear on my soft rigging components.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:36 pm

I don't know the answer. I would use the soft shackle but I'd like to know how it's supposed to be done. I've rapped off some seriously sketchy tat when needed, some times you have to make do.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by TwinStick » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:16 pm

I have used D-clevis's my whole life when wincing, with no issues. I just go slow & make sure everything is straight and proper before putting full force on your rigging. Yes, sometimes you need to make many trips up and down your rigging but slow & steady wins the race when winching.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by NovA ProspekT » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:50 pm

Suppose you are extracting a stuck vehicle and the conditions require the length of two straps, they are joined together in the middle by a steel shackle. Should one of the straps fail while under tension, that heavy metal shackle is now flying through the air in the opposite direction of the broken strap, constrained only by the length of that strap. The concern isn't so much that the shackle itself will fail. It's much the same reason why a steel winch line should never be run with out a weighted damper. Now, I suppose that if you have no other choice but to join straps with a metal shackle, you'd be fine with a weighted damper over it, but it's still a bad-habit to get into. I personally have several of the GatorJaw synthetic shackles, which have many other uses as well.


Here's a good PDF on the subject: How to Join Recovery Straps

...and another: BillaVista's Recovery Bible
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Bill2014 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:52 pm

NovA ProspekT wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:50 pm
Suppose you are extracting a stuck vehicle and the conditions require the length of two straps, they are joined together in the middle by a steel shackle. Should one of the straps fail while under tension, that heavy metal shackle is now flying through the air in the opposite direction of the broken strap, constrained only by the length of that strap. The concern isn't so much that the shackle itself will fail. It's much the same reason why a steel winch line should never be run with out a weighted damper. Now, I suppose that if you have no other choice but to join straps with a metal shackle, you'd be fine with a weighted damper over it, but it's still a bad-habit to get into. I personally have several of the GatorJaw synthetic shackles, which have many other uses as well.


Here's a good PDF on the subject: How to Join Recovery Straps

...and another: BillaVista's Recovery Bible
No doubt winching has the potential to be dangerous. How many people die each year by getting hit with a failed projectile shackle? I searched around for a while and couldn't find any. But I do believe it could and does happen. Looks like cable breaks, strap breaks, chain breaks, and parts breaking free from the recovered items are the most common.

I only use straps with loops that are rated well above the max pulling capacity of any winch or crane I'm using - regardless of how big or small the item is that I'm trying to move. I connect loop straps together by looping them through themselves - you can't break a shackle if you don't ever use them.

As far as the Power Wagon winching goes, the winch itself is the weakest link. I'll continue to use my steel line and hook with the latch - and connect the hook directly to the strap loop(s). Maybe I've just been lucky over the past 50 years ;)

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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by NovA ProspekT » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:57 pm

Bill2014 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:52 pm
No doubt winching has the potential to be dangerous. How many people die each year by getting hit with a failed projectile shackle? I searched around for a while and couldn't find any. But I do believe it could and does happen. Looks like cable breaks, strap breaks, chain breaks, and parts breaking free from the recovered items are the most common.

I only use straps with loops that are rated well above the max pulling capacity of any winch or crane I'm using - regardless of how big or small the item is that I'm trying to move. I connect loop straps together by looping them through themselves - you can't break a shackle if you don't ever use them.

As far as the Power Wagon winching goes, the winch itself is the weakest link. I'll continue to use my steel line and hook with the latch - and connect the hook directly to the strap loop(s). Maybe I've just been lucky over the past 50 years ;)

If suddenly I disappear from the forum, you'll know what happened :D
Of course, there are risks inherent to everything we do in life. Maybe I'm a Safety Sally, but I believe in doing everything possible to stack the deck in your favor. Using proper equipment, that is properly rigged, sure, there shouldn't be an issue, but as a wise-man once said: "shit happens". As you noted above, recovery gear can and has failed.

Alright, so, peep this:

Maybe your buddy's Ferd Craptor is stuck in a pothole in the mall parking lot, it's late at night so visibility is poor, that massive vape cloud isn't helping either. You don't want to get your truck too close to his for fear of catching AIDS, so you decide to attach your strap to your buddies with a properly rated steel shackle. You still haven't realized that your buddy has a history of poor judgement; his budget-brand strap has been sitting exposed to the elements in the back of his "truck" for years now. "Good to go" you think, before putting the Almighty Power Wagon in gear and unleashing all four hundred and ten horsepower. The strap is pulled taught, before failing(like his truck), sending that beefy steel shackle back towards his "truck" where it skips off of the aluminum hood(causing $10,000 worth of dents) and through the windshield. The shackle barely misses your buddies head, but not before ruining his favorite pair of Oakley's and effecticely totaling his "truck'.
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Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Colibri » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:42 pm

Thanks nova, I love story time lol
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by nts007 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:52 pm

NovA ProspekT wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:57 pm
Bill2014 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:52 pm
No doubt winching has the potential to be dangerous. How many people die each year by getting hit with a failed projectile shackle? I searched around for a while and couldn't find any. But I do believe it could and does happen. Looks like cable breaks, strap breaks, chain breaks, and parts breaking free from the recovered items are the most common.

I only use straps with loops that are rated well above the max pulling capacity of any winch or crane I'm using - regardless of how big or small the item is that I'm trying to move. I connect loop straps together by looping them through themselves - you can't break a shackle if you don't ever use them.

As far as the Power Wagon winching goes, the winch itself is the weakest link. I'll continue to use my steel line and hook with the latch - and connect the hook directly to the strap loop(s). Maybe I've just been lucky over the past 50 years ;)

If suddenly I disappear from the forum, you'll know what happened :D
Of course, there are risks inherent to everything we do in life. Maybe I'm a Safety Sally, but I believe in doing everything possible to stack the deck in your favor. Using proper equipment, that is properly rigged, sure, there shouldn't be an issue, but as a wise-man once said: "shit happens". As you noted above, recovery gear can and has failed.

Alright, so, peep this:

Maybe your buddy's Ferd Craptor is stuck in a pothole in the mall parking lot, it's late at night so visibility is poor, that massive vape cloud isn't helping either. You don't want to get your truck too close to his for fear of catching AIDS, so you decide to attach your strap to your buddies with a properly rated steel shackle. You still haven't realized that your buddy has a history of poor judgement; his budget-brand strap has been sitting exposed to the elements in the back of his "truck" for years now. "Good to go" you think, before putting the Almighty Power Wagon in gear and unleashing all four hundred and ten horsepower. The strap is pulled taught, before failing(like his truck), sending that beefy steel shackle back towards his "truck" where it skips off of the aluminum hood(causing $10,000 worth of dents) and through the windshield. The shackle barely misses your buddies head, but not before ruining his favorite pair of Oakley's and effecticely totaling his "truck'.
This is entirely incorrect. The moment said friend bought a ftrd crapper he was automatically added to the non friend list. You may see said non friend and just carry on driving by being sure to drive close enough for him to see and recognize you making sure to hit the giant puddle he was trying to avoid initially causing said pothole envelopment covering his truck and him with wet nasty slushy mud like substance since his window was down. Be sure to toss a wave as you carry on with your normal unspoiled non bad choice day.....
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by nts007 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:54 pm

And I've had 2 ford tow hooks break off when winching them.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Low_Sky » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:56 pm

My favorite part was the reduced visibility due to vape cloud.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by NovA ProspekT » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:01 am

nts007 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:54 pm
And I've had 2 ford tow hooks break off when winching them.
"BUILT FORD TOUGH".
:rofl:
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Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:57 am

nts007 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:54 pm
And I've had 2 ford tow hooks break off when winching them.
I'm not surorised.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by adeluca73 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:27 pm

Suggest tagging and bookmarking the Army Manual on rigging and winching linked below---I'll spare the pedantic resuscitation of force calcs, but suffice it to say, there's math to be done if you're concerned about breaking strengths.

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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by TommyG » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:44 am

adeluca73 wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:27 pm
Suggest tagging and bookmarking the Army Manual on rigging and winching linked below---I'll spare the pedantic resuscitation of force calcs, but suffice it to say, there's math to be done if you're concerned about breaking strengths.

Army Manual FM 5-125
Thanks for the link.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by trk4sale » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:02 am

This is a great price for synthetic rope, if you don't mind green
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/samson-r ... cordNum=18

Never mind, they only have 5 feet of it! WTF?
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by Low_Sky » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Lol, I went into my local West Marine when I saw them put that on sale a month or two ago. Had them try to get a hold of the store that had it. When my guy never called me back I assumed they had a less-than-usable quantity. If it looks too good to be true. . .
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by trk4sale » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:46 am

Last time it was on sale I got 40 feet to make soft shackles. Must have been lucky.
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Re: Winch rope extension question

Post by trk4sale » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:52 am

Damndest thing: clicked the link for kicks and was able to get 40 feet. Do some splicing and it will be a nice winch extension.
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