Heavy duty suspension

[Truckin Redneck]

Hey everyone

So I posted about the new Road Armor bumpers I picked up for the power wagon, so far I love them they are built well and seem to hold up to quite a bit according to their owners. Now It seems with everything we do to these trucks there will be a plus side and a down side. Down side now is the the truck has quite a bit of roll through the corners. What do you guys think would be the best fix for that? It should be noted that I would like to run a leveling kit on the truck in the future but it is my understanding that most non spacer lift kits that replace the springs also change they springs to be softer I am worried about the leveling kit not really leveling the truck due to the bumper.

[olyelr]

Hm. If you want to level the truck with new springs, I would suggest Thuren's kit or Carli's.

[OffroadTreks]

Yeah, Thuren's front coils are not softer. So no worries there. But those are heavy bumpers you installed. In comparison, mine weighs around 120lbs and I've lifted and installed it myself.

Better shocks should in theory help too.....

[13BlkPowerWagon]

Shocks won't really help roll. You've increased the load on the dampers (shocks), so you should upgrade them with stiffer valving, but it still won't help body roll... You've increased the height of your CG, so it's going to roll more unless you increase the roll stiffness... The only way to do that is with stiffer springs, or stiffer sway bars, or both.

[OffroadTreks]

I'm confused how he increased the COG when adding bumpers?

[DamageWagon]

Shocks won't really help roll. You've increased the load on the dampers (shocks), so you should upgrade them with stiffer valving, but it still won't help body roll... You've increased the height of your CG, so it's going to roll more unless you increase the roll stiffness... The only way to do that is with stiffer springs, or stiffer sway bars, or both.

Shocks valved for a vehicle with roll issues will 100% have a huge impact on controlling roll. Just by adjusting the bypasses on my rear shocks I can go from having almost zero roll to having my truck flop like a fish. @reloaderguy might be able to chime in here.

[Reloaderguy]

I had a response typed out but didn't post it because of the context of the thread. I don't think any off the shelf shocks on the market would reduce body roll. I also don't think heavy aftermarket bumpers weigh enough to exceed the spring rate of the stock sway bar.

[13BlkPowerWagon]

Shocks valved for a vehicle with roll issues will 100% have a huge impact on controlling roll. Just by adjusting the bypasses on my rear shocks I can go from having almost zero roll to having my truck flop like a fish. @reloaderguy might be able to chime in here.

Your symptom was addressed, but at the expense of something else. With Bypass shocks, you've got MUCH better tunability than what I'm betting the OP has, but you're still stiffening the valving in a specific stroke area to increase damping, which would increase damping regardless of if the movement is roll related, or bump related. Damping is always a compromise... Increase damping at the expense of harshness at low speeds/small bumps, decrease it at the expense of high speeds/larger bumps. Bypass shocks allow for multiple zones of damping, so you can have nice squishy shocks with little damping around null for the small chop/road bumps, but very high damping further into the travel range for those large bumps.

As for raising the COG, it was more an assumption on my part that the bumpers are above the CG of a stock truck, and since they're so much heavier than the stock units, it would in turn raise the CG... I could be wrong, and the bumpers could be below the CG, in which case, it would still roll more due to the total weight, but not as much as if the bumpers raised the CG.

Regardless, the added weight has now changed the total sprung weight of the truck, which has a greater effect on the roll stiffness (the stiffness doesn't change, but since the weight is greater, it will inherently roll more with the same stiffness). The only way to bring the truck back towards neutral/stock, is to increase the roll stiffness. The only way to do this (easily) without effecting total suspension stiffness is with sway bars, but those have their own drawbacks and trade-offs as well.

EDIT: Sorry, saw you said the bypass's on your shocks, not bypass shocks. Again, crank up the compression damping on the needle valves/clickers, and it'll increase total damping, which will make the truck ride harder than if they're loose... It still goes back to the compromise.

[Reloaderguy]

To reduce body roll with valving you increase rebound dampening, not compression. Your assumptions about ride quality sacrifice to reduce body roll with valving is greatly overstated.

[DamageWagon]

I’m with reloader on his points. Off the shelf shocks are valved for the vehicle and tend to be softer than stock as well. If you’re getting something tunable, you can play with the rebound valving. My truck is still very comfortable with moderate rebound stiffness. It’s also not just soft-stiff, there’s more tunability than that.

[Colibri]

100% agree that shocks can be tuned to mitigate body roll without being overly stiff.

[Truckin Redneck]

Thanks guys I have been on the horn with carli for the better part of the day talking to them about my concerns they believe their Backcountry system is going to give me the best options while not breaking the bank. They also recommended for the amount of towing I do a set of ride rite air bags in some daystar cradles. So now its time to to hurry up and save for the system. Thanks for input guys!