37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

User avatar
BoldAdventure
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:23 am
Model Year: 2015
Location: Nomadic
Contact:

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:18 pm

I watched a dude change his gears and swap in a new locker in the dirt next to my Airstream. That looked fun. NOT. And yet he got it al done in a day.
2015 Power Wagon Laramie - "ROCKLANDER"
[Build Thread] [Instagram] [Youtube]

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:08 pm

Retired BLM Rig wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:31 pm
I've done Dana 60's and 70's which are much harder to do because it's all adjusted with shims. At least the AAM axles have spanner nut adjustment on the carrier bearings, that's half the battle. GM 14 bolt and Ford 9" are the easiest.
Every mechanical discipline incorporates a margin of error, just work within that margin and you'll be fine. It's not rocket surgery, I say go for it! :ugeek:
I've done gears before but not the 9.25/11.5 and I don't have the tools. I'm considering just buying the tools and doing it myself. I'm burned out dealing with mechanics also.
Best Year Power Wagon

Colibri
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:44 pm
Model Year: 2009

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Colibri » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:23 pm

Do it reloaderguy. You don’t need a tremendous amount of equipment to do an A+ job. A harbor freight hydraulic press would be a luxury item but you can definitely work around. On YouTube Carl Jantz has some gear pattern information that makes it extremely easy to get a good pattern quickly. The AAM axles are very straight forward to work on
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:05 am

The only part I can't find information on is the inner axle seal for the CAD. Does anyone have schematics of the seals and source for the CAD seal driver?
The video I posted earlier is a how-to for setting up both axle gear sets without the CAD.
Best Year Power Wagon

User avatar
Low_Sky
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 7:12 pm
Model Year: 2015
Location: Eagle River, Alaska

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Low_Sky » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:15 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:05 am
The only part I can't find information on is the inner axle seal for the CAD. Does anyone have schematics of the seals and source for the CAD seal driver?
The video I posted earlier is a how-to for setting up both axle gear sets without the CAD.
Delete it. Put a solid long shaft in there. The mechanism seems to be reliable enough, but I'm shocked we aren't popping those honking huge plastic connector/controllers off the back of the axle housing left and right. I'm sure that thing defaults to unlocked, so your MPGs don't suffer while you're limping it home in 2WD.

Lately I've been contemplating building a skid for it, or just deleting the CAD. I was able to find one example of someone deleting the CAD; there was nothing commercially available so the guy had to order a shaft and have the CAD seal surface machined into it.
John
Alaska
2015 PW on 2.5" Thuren Kings
My build thread

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:12 am

To delete the CAD you need a 2lo kit and either machined '13 long side shaft or RCV's. Maybe in the future but it's not overly important right now.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013- ... g-cad.html
Best Year Power Wagon

User avatar
BoldAdventure
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:23 am
Model Year: 2015
Location: Nomadic
Contact:

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:33 am

Hit up Chris Sisseck over on offroad power wagon. As much as you disdain FB, he's been through his 2016 twice now. First with Nitro gears, then Yukon's. He literally did a full swap on the ground next to my trailer in Moab. Chris will know. Used to be a service tech. Helped us all get part numbers fast when we started breaking shit. :cheers:
2015 Power Wagon Laramie - "ROCKLANDER"
[Build Thread] [Instagram] [Youtube]

User avatar
olyelr
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2978
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:00 pm
Model Year: 2016
Location: Kewadin, MI

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by olyelr » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:45 am

MikeKey wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:33 am
Hit up Chris Sisseck over on offroad power wagon. As much as you disdain FB, he's been through his 2016 twice now. First with Nitro gears, then Yukon's. He literally did a full swap on the ground next to my trailer in Moab. Chris will know. Used to be a service tech. Helped us all get part numbers fast when we started breaking shit. :cheers:
What is “offroad power wagon”?
2016 Ram Power Wagon Laramie - Granite Crystal Metallic - Ramboxes :patriot:

KevinABQ
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:32 pm
Model Year: 2018
Location: Albuquerque

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by KevinABQ » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:55 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:33 am
Hit up Chris Sisseck over on offroad power wagon. As much as you disdain FB, he's been through his 2016 twice now. First with Nitro gears, then Yukon's. He literally did a full swap on the ground next to my trailer in Moab. Chris will know. Used to be a service tech. Helped us all get part numbers fast when we started breaking shit. :cheers:
He did recommend going with Yukon over Nitro very strongly.
2018 White Rambox, Diamondback HD bed cover, White Knuckle sliders, Carli and Purple Cranium diff guards, masterpull 11mm superline

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 pm

He's not the only one. I think Lee blew up a set of Nitro 9.25.
Best Year Power Wagon

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 1823
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by DamageWagon » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:52 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 pm
He's not the only one. I think Lee blew up a set of Nitro 9.25.
I believe Lee was towing someone out of mud, in reverse. Operator error.

Chris S in Moab knew what he was doing on the original install and the culprit came down to the ring gear hardware supplied by Nitro being too short. The bolts all came unscrewed or sheared if I remember correctly, which took out the locker and pinion.

User avatar
BoldAdventure
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:23 am
Model Year: 2015
Location: Nomadic
Contact:

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Bolt sheered in the housing while on the trail, and well you can imagine the carnage. Took out the Ring & Pinion and the Locker. Very expensive.

Props for doing it in the dirt, lol. Mad respect.
2015 Power Wagon Laramie - "ROCKLANDER"
[Build Thread] [Instagram] [Youtube]

User avatar
Bill2014
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 9:03 pm
Model Year: 2014
Location: Northern NY

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Bill2014 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:21 am

DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:52 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 pm
He's not the only one. I think Lee blew up a set of Nitro 9.25.
I believe Lee was towing someone out of mud, in reverse. Operator error.

Chris S in Moab knew what he was doing on the original install and the culprit came down to the ring gear hardware supplied by Nitro being too short. The bolts all came unscrewed or sheared if I remember correctly, which took out the locker and pinion.
I'm always nervous about blowing a differential backing a heavy load up a steep hill. Low range reverse puts by far the most stress on the differentials - it is the lowest gearing we have working in the gear set "weak" direction. Iv'e had situations when all four wheels were skidding slowly in reverse on pavement just trying to get in position.
:o
2014 Power Wagon Laramie
Titan V5 2.5" Receiver Pintle Hook
Warn wireless winch controller
.188" DOM White Knuckle Rock Sliders
Locker Bypass

Moab 2006

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by NickTF » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:36 am

For my own education someone explain the weakness of the ring and pinion while backing heavy loads?

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:54 am

The drive side of a gear set on a low pinion axle is the strongest side of the teeth. The coast side is the weak side so loading the gears in reverse can break them. The deeper/lower the gears, the more inherently weak the gears are because of how small the pinion becomes (on most standard axles). I have broken gears in reverse (doing burnouts in reverse with a D35).
Best Year Power Wagon

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 1823
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by DamageWagon » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:39 pm

In the drive (forward moving) side of the ring and pinion gear, the load pushes the teeth into the meat of the gear, everything in compression. Applying torque the other way, coast side, you are kind of peeling the teeth away from the gear, where it is way way weaker. Look at a picture of a ring and pinion and it should make sense

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by NickTF » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:59 pm

Thanks folks!

User avatar
adeluca73
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2122
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 11:56 pm
Model Year: 2014
Location: The Pentagon, VA

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by adeluca73 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:03 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:01 am
5.13 or 5.38 probably.
Good luck. That’s small, the pinion will be very small, you’ll have to nail the pinion angle pretty spot on. With 5.38’s, 37’s, and gear in the bed, you’d have an issue trying to reverse in 4L if you ever got stuck. But they’re gonna be awesome crawling gears, but will kill your mpg’s too, if that matters. I’ve been happy with 4.88’s...it’s a good compromise. Not as good as the manual 3Gen’rs.
2014 Ram PW SLT: 1st year of the Best Gen
<Build Thread>

User avatar
olyelr
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2978
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:00 pm
Model Year: 2016
Location: Kewadin, MI

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by olyelr » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:21 pm

adeluca73 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:03 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:01 am
5.13 or 5.38 probably.
Good luck. That’s small, the pinion will be very small, you’ll have to nail the pinion angle pretty spot on. With 5.38’s, 37’s, and gear in the bed, you’d have an issue trying to reverse in 4L if you ever got stuck. But they’re gonna be awesome crawling gears, but will kill your mpg’s too, if that matters. I’ve been happy with 4.88’s...it’s a good compromise. Not as good as the manual 3Gen’rs.
Pinion angle?
2016 Ram Power Wagon Laramie - Granite Crystal Metallic - Ramboxes :patriot:

Colibri
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:44 pm
Model Year: 2009

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Colibri » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:12 am

I think he meant gear pattern? Also, reverse in 4lo loaded up isn’t necessarily a problem, shock loading is what will cause catastrophic failure. Easy enough in 4hi as well, but not tremendously more so than stock gears. It’s a bad idea on a high pinion front period.

When Lee broke his front end he was trying to snatch out an F350 that was mired to the frame in a giant Canadian mud pit, in reverse. I’d wager that the 4.56’s would have given up the ghost too.
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:49 am

For what it's worth, AAM makes 5.13 OEM.
Best Year Power Wagon

User avatar
olyelr
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2978
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:00 pm
Model Year: 2016
Location: Kewadin, MI

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by olyelr » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:31 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:49 am
For what it's worth, AAM makes 5.13 OEM.
Front and rear?
2016 Ram Power Wagon Laramie - Granite Crystal Metallic - Ramboxes :patriot:

User avatar
adeluca73
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2122
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 11:56 pm
Model Year: 2014
Location: The Pentagon, VA

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by adeluca73 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:13 am

olyelr wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:21 pm
adeluca73 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:03 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:01 am
5.13 or 5.38 probably.
Good luck. That’s small, the pinion will be very small, you’ll have to nail the pinion angle pretty spot on. With 5.38’s, 37’s, and gear in the bed, you’d have an issue trying to reverse in 4L if you ever got stuck. But they’re gonna be awesome crawling gears, but will kill your mpg’s too, if that matters. I’ve been happy with 4.88’s...it’s a good compromise. Not as good as the manual 3Gen’rs.
Pinion angle?
Well not exactly...really i was referring to setting the right amount of pinion preload before mating the driveshaft with the axle u-joint. The pinion angle shouldn’t change if you don’t change the rear end geometry.
2014 Ram PW SLT: 1st year of the Best Gen
<Build Thread>

Colibri
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:44 pm
Model Year: 2009

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Colibri » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:16 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:52 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 pm
He's not the only one. I think Lee blew up a set of Nitro 9.25.
I believe Lee was towing someone out of mud, in reverse. Operator error.

Chris S in Moab knew what he was doing on the original install and the culprit came down to the ring gear hardware supplied by Nitro being too short. The bolts all came unscrewed or sheared if I remember correctly, which took out the locker and pinion.

I don’t know this Chris s guy and I don’t know what he did on original install however-

The original 5.13 gears supplied by nitro and Yukon are both meant for the Chevy IFS AAM 9.25

To use them on the solid axle you need to use a ring gear spacer to allow proper gear setup. If you don’t use the spacer, you bottom out one adjuster and max out the other. The bolts supplied with the gear set are not long enough to use the ring gear spacer because they’re not meant to be used with one. You need to get oem dodge application ring gear bolts which are in fact longer.

That’s very likely the culprit of his failure. If it is, then that’s not a nitro quality issue, it’s an install error issue.

This is how internet rumors get started lol. Nitro makes a good quality gear for our application.
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

User avatar
Reloaderguy
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: 37" tires with 4.10 for those who do have

Post by Reloaderguy » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:51 pm

Colibri wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:16 pm
DamageWagon wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:52 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 pm
He's not the only one. I think Lee blew up a set of Nitro 9.25.
I believe Lee was towing someone out of mud, in reverse. Operator error.

Chris S in Moab knew what he was doing on the original install and the culprit came down to the ring gear hardware supplied by Nitro being too short. The bolts all came unscrewed or sheared if I remember correctly, which took out the locker and pinion.

I don’t know this Chris s guy and I don’t know what he did on original install however-

The original 5.13 gears supplied by nitro and Yukon are both meant for the Chevy IFS AAM 9.25

To use them on the solid axle you need to use a ring gear spacer to allow proper gear setup. If you don’t use the spacer, you bottom out one adjuster and max out the other. The bolts supplied with the gear set are not long enough to use the ring gear spacer because they’re not meant to be used with one. You need to get oem dodge application ring gear bolts which are in fact longer.

That’s very likely the culprit of his failure. If it is, then that’s not a nitro quality issue, it’s an install error issue.

This is how internet rumors get started lol. Nitro makes a good quality gear for our application.
I was going to mention, the 5.13 9.25 gears require a GM to Chrysler conversion spacer that is easily referenced in a search. I was unaware of the bolts but I haven't started compiling a parts list yet. Thanks for the heads up.
Best Year Power Wagon

Post Reply