Not turning over

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drdfblackm
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Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:10 pm

My truck is a 2011 PW.

My truck is stuck at work. Started fine last Friday, drove to work no problem. Went out to leave work, power comes on, turn the key...no click no nothing. Well since I just replaced the starter in May I assumed the starter first....don't ask why I assumed it was the starter...just how my brain works. Removed the starter at work today and had it tested. The starter tested good. I bought a new battery December 2016.

So what I am looking for is a few things to look for when I get back to work tomorrow. I live 55 miles from work so I have to have some strategy going into this. Thankfully the PW is not my only vehicle. I will look at fuses....what else should I look for if the fuses are good?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by olyelr » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:22 pm

Kind of a dumb question, but is it fully in park?
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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:29 pm

Yes....that's the first thing I checked. I even put it in neutral and moved it just a bit to make sure it clicked in park.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by flattire » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:28 pm

Battery cables loose?

drdfblackm
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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm

Nope....checked that too. Cables are good.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by Pit Slave » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:40 pm

Disconnect the battery and short out the plus and minus cables together. Leave it like that for more than 5 minutes. While it is shorted, cycle the key to the on and start position then off. Reconnect the battery and try to start it again.
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Re: Not turning over

Post by Retired BLM Rig » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:47 pm

Take a test light or voltmeter so you can test for battery power and crank signal to the starter.
  • Do you have any kind of aftermarket alarm system on the truck?
  • Is it the same key you always use?
  • Do you have a scanner to check for trouble codes?
  • Is there any corrosion on your battery cables?
  • Be sure your battery is fully charged: It only takes 30-50 amps to power everything up when you turn the key on, but it takes 200-300 amps to crank the starter over.
  • With the starter installed and connected, if you touch a jumper wire from the large battery cable post to the small signal wire terminal, it should crank over.
Here's the diagnostic chart from the FSM.
Starter Diagnostic Chart.jpg
Good luck, keep us posted. :popcorn:

drdfblackm
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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:57 pm

Do you have any kind of aftermarket alarm system on the truck? No
Is it the same key you always use? Yes....I only have 1 key
Do you have a scanner to check for trouble codes? No CEL on....but I do have a cheap scanner and I will take it with me
Is there any corrosion on your battery cables? 0 corrosion....I greased the terminals when I put new battery in
Be sure your battery is fully charged: It only takes 30-50 amps to power everything up when you turn the key on, but it takes 200-300 amps to crank the starter over. Understood....I can always take and have the battery checked
With the starter installed and connected, if you touch a jumper wire from the large battery cable post to the small signal wire terminal, it should crank over. Always scares the sh*t out of me but yes I will attempt that if all else fails.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by Adam_C » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:41 pm

Key fob dead? Just had that issue this weekend in our Mini. Just a thought.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:44 pm

If it were dead, it wouldn't turn anything on would it? I mean I can get acc position to turn on so I have dash and radio...just when I turn to start nothing happens....plus I can still lock and unlock from afar.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by Adam_C » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:39 am

Ah, not really sure. I could lock/unlock the doors on the mini, but nothing else. Sounds like you’re getting more juice than I was. Was just taking a stab at it, good luck👍🏻

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Re: Not turning over

Post by Bill2014 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:54 am

Try a jump first - in case the battery is discharged.
Smack on the Starter Solenoid - sometimes they stick?
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Re: Not turning over

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:54 am

A word of caution on the starter. Typical of cheap remans they can work on a bench but not under load in the vehicle. Went through this painfully one time. Hard to believe you needed a starter on such a new vehicle?
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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:19 am

Well I know a starter is like any other electrical device in that it can just go out but usually they warn you a little....the OE one started dragging so I pushed my luck with that one and got burned. This starter was sounding fine. I will check fuses first and go from there. I will also discharge the system as directed above to see if that helps.

If anyone has any other words of advice I'm all ears.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:50 am

Anyone have a 2011 PW fuse diagram so I know what to look for?

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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:53 pm

Reinstalled the starter and it started....once. Won't start again. I am pretty sure it is something in soleinoid circuit or wiring. Not sure where.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:26 pm

Buy a new starter?
Best Year Power Wagon

drdfblackm
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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:44 pm

I mean I can take it to NAPA and have them test it. If it bench tests good at 2 different places I can only assume it is in fact a good starter. I am not sure what the heck is going on. Very frustrating....I wish I would have drove it home when it started but I mean I thought well I just had a bad connection on the starter wiring when I put it on and it wiggled it self to where it was not making good contact...but I guess I was wrong. This is so difficult not having the truck at home. Grrrrr

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Re: Not turning over

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:54 pm

Ok, so I had this Intl dump truck.....5 starters, the first 4 tested on the bench fine, the 5th time Vato Zone said last one, and that was fine it fired right up. Reman starters and Alternators are like playing Russian Ru let . Never know when it will fire. Nor for how many months before you need another.

The biggest problem is they rebuild the starter, but if the solenoid tests ok they dot touch it. And its ALWAYS worn out.
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Re: Not turning over

Post by 2010PWERWGN » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:41 pm

It's honestly good that it won't start and not an intermittent issue. All you need is a test light and a helper to turn the key. If the test light illuminates on the small terminal when cranking and the battery is good you need a starter. If not, I would suspect a bad WCM (ignition switch) which has to be dealer programmed. This same thing happened to me a while back and ended up being the wcm. Also if you have remote start it will usually remote start even with a bad wcm. I've also seen a few bad "S" terminal connectors cause the same issue. Good luck and let everyone know what you find.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by altaguy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:20 pm

I just went through this issue as well on my brothers 05. Truck started fine for a month then would not turn over or click. Then the next day it starts fine. The issue was a loose ground going to the engine block behind the power steering reservoir. The threads were stripped so I ran a new ground wire from the battery to the starter mounting bolt.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:28 pm

I also have a 2011 but have no had this issue.

I had a similar issue with my old cummins. If you leave the door open and then the key do you hear the starter click? When you turn the key there's a small wire that sends power to a solenoid inside the starter, that solenoid sends the big current to the actual motor. I had several occasions where I would turn the key and hear a "click" but the starter would not engage. What happens is the solenoid always hits in about the same spot so it arcs each time and forms a carbon buildup. First option is just keep trying to start it. Second option is to pull the starter, pull the solenoid, use some scotchbrite or fine sandpaper and clean the carbon off.

Another possibility is your key system isn't working (either the RFID in the key or the ignition module you put the key in) but that's easy to test. Leave your actual truck keys far away and use any other key, knife, screwdriver or whatever to turn the key. If the dash still lights up then I can't say if that proves anything, but if the dash stays dark then your key should be good because that's what's letting the computer know to start the dash.

Third option, I just found several of my fuse pins in the fuse box the other way had bad contact. My 12v power plug in the console and the inverter would only work intermittently. Found that one pin of the fuse was held tightly and one was wobbly, the contacts inside the fuse box were loose. I bent that leg of the fuse and put it back in, works no problem.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:34 pm

Just checked....I have 12V going to starter trigger. Which means it has to be the starter correct???

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Re: Not turning over

Post by Retired BLM Rig » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:35 pm

drdfblackm wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:34 pm
Just checked....I have 12V going to starter trigger. Which means it has to be the starter correct???
Yes. Probably a bad connection inside the starter and when you remove it to bench test it, things get shaken around and it tests good, but in the rig it fails.
You might confirm the diagnosis by tapping on the starter to shake it while someone is turning the key. I bet it cranks and starts when you’re tapping it.

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Re: Not turning over

Post by drdfblackm » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:15 pm

I will take the starter and the battery to be tested....dad reminded me that it may show enough voltage on the multimeter but it may not have enough amperage. Load testing should show if the battery is good or not I do believe.

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