Help with vibration issues

[wty527]

Greetings all,

I'm brand new to the forum and am coming in hopes of finding some help with my PW. I've searched this forum and the internet in general and haven't found any information that pertains to my issues. I have a 2013 Power Wagon that currently has approx. 82k miles on it. I'm currently running 285/75-17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers. They have somewhere around 8 to 10k miles on them and have been smooth and quiet since putting them on the truck. This is my first RAM (I've always been a Ford guy.) and had been decently impressed with the truck until the last few months.

In early June I took the truck to my dealer to have a rear pinion seal replaced. That in it's self is an issue for me. I've never had a vehicle need pinion seals replaced and this truck has had two, one in the front around 55k and this last one in the rear around 80k, but I digress. The seal was replaced under warranty and all was well with the world until I hit the interstate heading home. The truck had a substantial vibration above 60mph that I'm certain was not present before it went into the shop. I tried to convince myself that I was imagining the vibration and went ahead and drove the truck for a couple of days. Being certain that something was wrong I took the truck back to the dealer and discussed the issue. I explained that the vibration occurred anytime I drove over 60mph and seemed the worst around 70mph. I felt the vibration more in the seat and chassis of the truck than in the steering. They kept it a couple of days and then called and said I should have the differentials serviced. So, I gave the go ahead and spent $400+ to have the diffs flushed and the fluid changed. They said they couldn't find any issues and that the tires were probably out of balance. I knew better but wasn't going to argue. I picked the truck up and took it to my tire shop. These guys do tires as 75% or more of their business and know what they are doing. Over the course of the next two weeks I had the tires balanced and rotated twice. They all balanced out well and there was no change in the vibration either time. Back to the dealer for Round 3... I spoke with the Service Manager and the Shop Foreman in addition to the service advisor I had been using on the other visits. This time they kept the truck about a week and ended up replacing the front axle joints. The dealership stated that after speaking with RAM that it was decided that the axle joints were a likely suspect and that the ones on my PW showed signs of wear and some leakage. I picked the truck up on a Saturday afternoon and started home with it. Again, all was well until hitting interstate speeds near 70mph. Needless to say I was not happy! Sunday after my blood pressure had returned to a near normal level I crawled under the truck and started looking around for myself. I found that the rear driveshaft was tight with no play, but the front driveshaft had close to 1/8" of side to side movement. In addition to this I discovered a transmission fluid leak near the front of the transfer case, but that's a whole other issue. Monday the truck went back to the dealership for the 4th time! I explained that the front axle joints had not fixed the vibration, and told them about the play I had found in the front driveshaft. By this point I had narrowed the most extreme vibration down to occurring between 66-69mph. I left the truck and after close to another week they called me to come test drive the truck and pick it up if I was satisfied. They had confirmed the play in the front driveshaft and had replaced the entire shaft with a brand new unit. I drove the truck for about 30 minutes and was able to get up to sustained speeds of 70+mph. The vibration was definitely reduced and I thought things were pretty good.

I've had the truck back home for about 2 weeks and while the vibration isn't as bad as when it first began (after having the rear pinion seal replaced) the truck just doesn't feel "right". I'm at a loss of where to go from here. At this point I don't even know how to explain it to the dealership as its not a issue that I can easily explain or pinpoint. Its hard to go in and say "my truck doesn't feel right, fix it!". I'm very in tune with my truck and know something is "off" but again I can't manage to pinpoint the issue.

I'd like to know if anyone has had similar issues or can offer some insight as to what the issue may be? I'm at the end of my rope so to speak.
Thanks in advance for any help provided!

[olyelr]

Well by the sounds of it the vibration started right after they replaced the pinion seal, so my guess would be there was an issue with the install of that. Lack of proper pre-load/torque on the pinion?

[Retired BLM Rig]

Anytime I pull a driveshaft I mark the mating flanges so I can put it back on in the same position. You might want to look and see if there are any witness marks (a painted line across both flanges) from the factory or dealer and re-clock the driveshaft to that position. If you don't see any marks, make your own and try re-clocking and test drive it to see if it makes any difference. There's four options on how it bolts together, try another and see if it improves. It couldn't hurt to try and it's free.

Also, I can't remember which manufacturer has this, but I've seen a sticker on factory aluminum driveshafts that says "If this driveshaft is dropped, replace it." Maybe yours got bent or damaged. A driveshaft shop could tell you.

Good luck.

[Colibri]

What he said^^^^ your most likely culprit is the rear driveshaft

[wty527]

Thanks for the input!! I have been suspicious of the rear driveshaft myself as that should have been the only thing loosened or removed during the pinion seal install. I've discussed that concern each time I've had it at the dealership, but honestly don't know if the tech(s) have checked it or not. They always agree that it's a possibility but I don't know what follow up they have done after it goes back to the shop area. I suppose its time to DIY as Retired BLM Rig suggested. Its just frustrating to have to go behind the "experts" and fix their potential mistake(s). Hopefully I can get time in the next week or so and give it a shot. Thanks again!

On the bright side they have found several other issues (i.e., front axle joints, front driveshaft) throughout this process and repaired them. Although with this many components going out on this truck at the current age and mileage I am concerned with its durability and longevity.

[Will]

Take the front driveshaft out and then go drive it to isolate the front and rear drive trains, that'll narrow it down some.

[13powerwagon]

I hear you on the pinion seal issue. I have a 13 as well with 85000 miles on it and I have had my front seal replaced 3 times and my rear replaced once. I had no vibration after my rear seal was replaced but did develop another issue where you could hear a metallic pinging sound when I would back up, ended up having to have the rear case in the dif replaced, so it's completely reasonable to assume they messed something up while they were replacing the seal.

[DamageWagon]

That's good that they replaced the front shaft. They do wear out, and when they fail it is catastrophic. My front shaft went out and grenaded the transfer case with it.

As for your vibration, if it occurred due to the service, then it's probably either your driveshaft like these guys said or they screwed up the pinion seal replacement. I would do just like BLM said and try rotating the shaft. When you pull the shaft, check that the pinion nut is tight if you can. Maybe someone could pitch in a procedure to check that, I'm not sure if it's a torque spec or a "finger tight then two more turns" kind of thing.

[TwinStick]

Well by the sounds of it the vibration started right after they replaced the pinion seal, so my guess would be there was an issue with the install of that. Lack of proper pre-load/torque on the pinion?

My money says they did not put the proper pre-load/torque on the pinion nut & crush sleeve. Some people just impact them on, some do not even mark the original spot. Crush sleeves are not supposed to be reused, but people do it all the time, with great success, IF they mark where it was & go just a tiny bit more when re-installing it. If your pinion gear teeth are too far back or not back far enough (from improper torque/ing), that would cause a vibration, as the teeth would not be in the same "worn in" spot on the ring gear, as before.

[stooper]

If you try clocking the shaft like BLM said, grab the pinion flange while you have the driveshaft off and see if it plunges in and out or has up/down play.
Also check the ujoint for binding.

[Retired BLM Rig]

I took a couple pictures of mine.

In this pic you can see the factory paint mark between the two flanges and a tiny balance weight welded to the seal shield.

In this pic you can see two of the balance weights on the driveshaft tube.

Since there's balance weights on both component, I would say it's critical that they get reassembled the same way to avoid vibration.

[wty527]

Thanks again for all the input and suggestions! I've checked the rear drive shaft and found that it had what appears to be factory or at least old witness marks on the driveshaft and flange. They just happened to be a quarter turn off! I took it apart, lined them up, and reinstalled everything. After driving the truck its a definite improvement. It still may not be 100% vibration free, but to be honest at this point I've forgotten what normal really feels like and I may be feeling road and tire vibration. I've only been dealing with this for 3 months! I did not specifically check the pinion nut as some on here have suggested because I had not read those suggestions in time, but did not find any other glaring issues. The truck is headed back to the dealership for round 2 on the mystery transmission leak and I will discuss the possibility of improper torque on the pinion nut with them and see if I can get them to go back and check it.

[cb1987]

sucks your having troubles but a gm or ford could just as easily have the same trouble. do you have any history on the truck ? could of been through every mud hole in the country. then again ,may have never left the pavment. this could meen the difference between a pinion seal going 200k or 85k, not to mention other parts wearing out sooner

ive read plenty of stories where dealers muffed a pinion seal replacement. mainly because they don't tighten the nut correct. the manual lists what the rotating torq should be but youd have to unbolt the driveline, slide out axles shafts, use inchlb dial torq wrench to check. fairly easy procedure but youd need a few special tools

ideally there should be no vibration but if your sure its there, it could be numerous things. tires or wheels. driveline like you mentioned earlier. pinion wasnt tightened enough and now its got a bunch of end play. possibly even transfer case tail shaft bearing. ujoints. honestly I would probly get under there a give everything a firm jiggle and see if anythings loose or worn. the competency of some dealer techs is questionable at best, so I would be most concearned whether they got the pinion tightened correct.

its a long shot but one other thing you may want to check that may cause a vibration. pinion seals can fail for numerous reasons but I would get under there and grab the driveline near the pinion and give it a good firm jiggle to be sure the pinion bearings aren't wobbling around. this could cause the seal to leak and a vibration

[wty527]

cb1987... To answer your question on the trucks background, I purchased the truck new. Its been on some gravel roads and through our pastures hauling hay several times, and has been stuck a time or two when moving trailers or hauling hay in the winter when the ground is soft and slick. Never been buried though. It hasn't been through anything that I would really consider "off-roading" like some of my other trucks and jeeps have been through. It has towed quite a bit as well. I agree that these issues could happen on any make of truck. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth because none of these issues have occurred on any other vehicle I've previously owned. Specifically in regards to the pinion seals going out when I asked the service advisor about it and expressed my concerns his reply was "it's just a ram truck thing". That was a red flag if I've ever heard one!

[stooper]

"it's just a ram truck thing". That was a red flag if I've ever heard one!

That is just a poor, lazy answer.
I can't say any make or model is worse for pinion seal leaks. (Maybe jeeps d44, but that's usually due to lack of maint.)
Popping spark plugs, yes.
Failing fuel pumps, yes.
Broken exhaust manifold studs, yes.
I feel your dealer is sub par, sorry. Maybe try another?
Glad you feel your truck is better, even if not exactly where you want.

[cb1987]

wty527 if you think your lucks bad, i bought a '17 and the pinion was leaking the day i got it home. didnt trust the local dealer to do the job right so i changed it myself. 1200mi later and all is good so far. the best i could tell, i concluded it was a defective seal. shit happens. on the other hand i have dakota with 142k and both original pinion seals bone dry. not even the smallest of seeping

your other vehicles may have just been good luck of the draw and things worked out with no problem. your pw just sounds like minor hiccups that often happen. aint like it dropped a valve or crankshaft broke. maintenace is key for any vehicle but im sure your aware of that. at 86k alot of the wear items are nearing their life span. waterpump, fuelpump, ujoints etc. sure they may last another 50k but if they make it to 100k you should think about replacing a few thing rather than push your luck. this applies to any truck really. alot of people just drive until their stranded in the ditch then blame the truck

[cb1987]

one other tidbit to mention. if you visit ford sites regarding '17 f250, alot of those guys are having every concievable problem you can think of. literly even problems you wouldnt think could happen. alot of them are having no problem at all but my luck i would get the truck with every problem. i have no experience with the '13 but the current pw seems like a well sorted truck from what i can tell