Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

If it's about Power Wagons, all generations, this is where it'll go. This is the original PWR Forum Power Wagon Technical Discussion Section. And this includes everything that doesn’t fit in any one of the other categories related to the truck goes here!
User avatar
Rodeoflyer
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:53 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Conifer, CO

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Rodeoflyer » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:53 pm

Ive never owned a raptor but being an automotive fan in general I do go and visit their forums to hear the lowdown when new models are released. They've always acted like that.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

User avatar
OffroadTreks
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2409
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:23 am
Model Year: 2015
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by OffroadTreks » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:19 pm

The Raptor is a lot like the AEV Prospector XL
2015 Power Wagon Laramie - "ROCKLANDER"
-------
[Build Thread] [Instagram] [Youtube]
------
Full-Size Off-Road Events & Overland Adventures

User avatar
nts007
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2284
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:01 pm
Model Year: 2008
Location: Sask, Canada, Earth

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by nts007 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:46 pm

Is the XL for Xtra Lame?
08 ctd--mini max--thuren 3" coils and LT Leaves--4.56 gears and lockers in pw axles--some lights--afe intake system--bd super b turbo--Banks w/m Injection--Dynatrac Balljoints--king 2.5"s--37" Hankook Dynapro MT--DOR Long arms--Custom emf track bar--Manual T-case swap--Full PW Under armor--PSC Hydro Assist and so much more

NickTF
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:01 pm
Model Year: 2014

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by NickTF » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:07 am

Love reading articles like this confirming what I've experienced since 2015! I do wish that Ram had done a better job with our transmission behavior, I felt like the characteristics listed for the zr2 are quite similar to the way my power wagon behaves albeit the 6.4 isn't a gutless wonder below 2500rpm. Also, the way my trans can be reluctant to shift into high gear once 60-65mph cruise is reached can get a little annoying as well. That's literally about all the complaint I have for my truck.

Sweet5ltr
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:19 am
Model Year: 2014

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Sweet5ltr » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:31 am

Raptor owners are imploding, it's hysterical reading the replies on that forum. Everything from 'incorrect tire pressure' to 'Ram rigged the testing' is being discussed.

Why is it such a controversy, the Raptor lost to two vehicles with better approach, breakover, and departure angles. Not only that, the other two vehicles had front and rear locking diffs and naturally aspirated engines. Unless the 3.5 twin-turbo engine is under load, it's not building positive manifold pressure continuously like a typical belt-driven roots/twin-screw style blower. Turbo engines make phenomenal torque as they're incredibly efficient, but only at WOT or under an extreme load! The Raptor is engineered to be the best factory production vehicle for 'Baja 1000 style' high-speed off roading. Unfortunately, nearly no realistic off-roading scenario is done this way, so it's no surprise that it lost in this type of real-world testing.
Last edited by Sweet5ltr on Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
2015 PW - 285/75r17 Yokohama Geolander G015's

37's and some :cash: to Thuren when the warranty expires :patriot:

Ducky's Dad
1000_Posts
1000_Posts
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ducky's Dad » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:32 am

They've always acted like that.
Probably because their flat billed caps are too tight.

User avatar
OffroadTreks
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2409
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:23 am
Model Year: 2015
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by OffroadTreks » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:52 am

Sweet5ltr wrote:Raptor owners are imploding, it's hysterical reading the replies on that forum. Everything from 'incorrect tire pressure' to 'Ram rigged the testing' is being discussed.

Why is it such a controversy, the Raptor lost to two vehicles with better approach, breakover, and departure angles. Not only that, the other two vehicles had front and rear locking diffs and naturally aspirated engines. Unless the 3.5 twin-turbo engine is under load, it's not building positive manifold pressure continuously like a typical belt-driven roots/twin-screw style blower. Turbo engines make phenomenal torque as they're incredibly efficient, but only at WOT or under an extreme load! The Raptor is engineered to be the best factory production vehicle for 'Baja 1000 style' high-speed off roading. Unfortunately, nearly no realistic off-roading scenario is done this way, so it's no surprise that it lost in this type of real-world testing.

Basically what I've been saying about the Rapturd forever. :cheers: You hit the nail on the head. It is way more of a niche vehicle than anyone realizes. And it doesn't translate well to other forms of offroading nearly as well as you'd think.
2015 Power Wagon Laramie - "ROCKLANDER"
-------
[Build Thread] [Instagram] [Youtube]
------
Full-Size Off-Road Events & Overland Adventures

User avatar
Chromolykid
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:05 pm
Model Year: 2014
Location: Phelan, CA
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Chromolykid » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:10 pm

NickTF wrote:Love reading articles like this confirming what I've experienced since 2015! I do wish that Ram had done a better job with our transmission behavior, I felt like the characteristics listed for the zr2 are quite similar to the way my power wagon behaves albeit the 6.4 isn't a gutless wonder below 2500rpm. Also, the way my trans can be reluctant to shift into high gear once 60-65mph cruise is reached can get a little annoying as well. That's literally about all the complaint I have for my truck.
Also my main gripe! The 8-speed would do great in our trucks... Just without that rotary dial. :doh:
“Furiosa”
2016 Power Wagon
White Knuckle Sliders
Walker Evans Wheels in 35” BFG KM3’s
DOR Steering Brace
Thuren Stage 1 KING 2.5’s
Thuren Coils Front & Rear
Thuren Track Bars Front & Rear
Thuren King Steering Stabilizer
Dethloff Swaybar Spacers
Thuren Swaybar Links Front & Rear
AEV Procal
Carli Front Diff Guard/Purple Cranium Half Spider Rear
Putco LED Headlights & Foglights
Custom Fender Flares and Grill

RustyPW
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 5430
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm
Model Year: 2008
Location: Brownsville Pa.

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by RustyPW » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Rodeoflyer wrote:I do remember the ford lightning but like this one better:
Image

And if you're a certain age and can remember this one:
Image

I had a 2001 S-runner with the TRD blower (that is before I totaled it). The first gen 3000lb ones before they added 1000# and rocker panels and crap to it.
It was as fast as a stock ford lightning with the 260hp blown v6.
Ace traded his SRT10 in for his PW.
PWOC #53
2008 POWER WAGON RC

My build thread. http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... =13&t=2826 :cash: :cash:

Moab '09, '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek - Summer '10, Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18, Summer '20, Summer '22,
AOAA Summer '19.

Russ
NRA - Benefactor, Golden Eagle. :lockedandloaded:

Juday
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 7:51 am

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Juday » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:51 am

That was a good article to read. It would be quite fun to do something like that and take an eight day adventurous drive somewhere. If only work didn't get in the way. Also, it's nice to see an article with writers that aren't Raptor nut swingers. God forbid something's not perfect with the Raptor!
2012 RAM Power Wagon
315/70R17 Goodyear Wrangler MTR w/ Kevlar | Carli Front Differential Cover | Aluminess Front Bumper | Aluminess Rock Sliders | PIAA 540 Fog Lights | 1" Daystar Lift | Thuren High Clearance Control Arms | Thuren Track Bar


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I --
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference

User avatar
whitey
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 9:26 am
Model Year: 2006
Location: Durham, North Carolina

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by whitey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:15 pm

I enjoyed the video. I might have to go look at the ZR2 and take it for a test drive. Take one to 4wheelparts and put it on the RTI ramp. And I wonder if chevy took the time to tuck all the undercarriage soft parts unlike Ford.

I also followed the Raptor thread and read pretty much the whole thread. If I didn't know any better I'd say a power wagon owner is speaking up in the thread. There is no love lost from me. I really got trolled by raptor owners when they first came out. Raptor owners thought they had THE truck for off road and where posting comments on my videos. Years later I've only seen them in packs on easy trails showing off their pretty trucks. Actually I take that back. I did see one on Dicky Bell trail bypass at Uwharrie (which is rated difficult). It didn't fair too well and it wouldn't make it today on that trail.

User avatar
DamageWagon
Vendor
Vendor
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 am
Model Year: 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:39 pm

Unless the ZR2 package added some skid plates, I remember when the diesel first came out the oil pan looked like it was designed to be a target. That thing was so low they should have just made it thick enough to be its own skid plate. No clue how the gas engine is.

User avatar
Reloaderguy
2000_Posts
2000_Posts
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:06 am
Model Year: 2016
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:43 pm

Jesus Christ the internet sucks sometimes.

User avatar
whitey
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 9:26 am
Model Year: 2006
Location: Durham, North Carolina

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by whitey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:59 pm

Just looked at pics of the ZR2 set up. rear driveshaft looks short....Jeep TJ short. Not sure if its the pics? Looks like it would be a chore to lift it but it appears as though chevy did much better than Ford. When I've gotten under raptors I've been freaked out about vulnerable brake lines and numerous electrical lines ready to be destroyed. I think it will be interesting to see a ZR2 going on some of the harder trails out my way.

FordyceCreekTrail
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:31 pm
Model Year: 2014
Location: Albuquerque

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:16 am

whitey wrote: When I've gotten under raptors I've been freaked out about vulnerable brake lines and numerous electrical lines ready to be destroyed.
Funny you say that. A Power Wagon will be my first new US made vehicle ever, and I have never owned anything but 4x4s. Some things that stuck with me from early on when I was young was no skid plates, no tow hooks....yadda yadda on US made 4x4s back in the day, but also all the brake lines, wires and parking brake cables that just dangled under neath. I could never imagine being off-road with crap like that hanging down. The Chevy Z71 package fixed a few things on that list and was pioneering at the time for US makers, but I remember popping the hood on a truck and all the engine wires were flopping around in the engine compartment as well. Ready to get melted or rubbed or what ever....As an age old Japanese truck buyer those types things are hard to accept.
2018 Flame Red, Moon Roof, Dual Alternators, Ram Boxes sadly Ram ran out of, Luxo Package with 8.4 UConnect, Enter and Go with remote start, Auto Wipers and Lights. Added missing skids and White Knuckle sliders. 35" BFG KM3s. Procal and Warn wireless remote for winch.

Ramajama
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:35 pm

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:29 am

MikeKey wrote:Raptors are one trick ponies, but thanks to marketing and flashy looks, their owners are convinced they have the most extreme badass offroad capable trucks. They don't.
YEP and the truth hurts!
2018 RAM 2500 Power Wagon :rockon:
2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux
2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE7

Ramajama
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:35 pm

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:44 am

Chromolykid wrote:Just wait for the TRX... Ram will have the off-road truck market cornered between it and the PW.

I know several Raptor owners who will trade their weed-whacker trucks in the second the TRX is available. Ford will have to put a V8 (Coyote?) back in their truck to be competitive.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Power Wagon, but the suspension isn't half of what it should be and I wish it had the 8-speed. Was about a week out from ordering KINGs when the "concept" guy at my dealer called and said he was briefed on TRX sales for next year. Fingers crossed it will be similar to the concept (besides the rack).
Yeah, Of course they will make the TRX. Ive been saying it since the "concept" was revealed. Yeah, of course RAM and RAM insiders are being coy about it. My bet (word on the street) is that the DT (5th generation 1500) will have a "sub brand" in the Rebel. The Rebel will consist of two models. One will be similar to the current Rebel and will have the new tech upgrades and the next gen air suspension. The other model will be the higher performance "TRX" Rapturd hunter. Sure it'll be nerfed down some but it'll still be awesome.

It'll be fun to see the lil Raptors meet the T-ReX...see what I did there? :lol:

+1 on everything you said. Its going to be a huge success. As for Furd, Ive already heard rumors that Furd is going to have to offer the 5.0 in the Rapturd again as the new Rapturd isn't being received as well as they thought. Too bad RAM couldnt strike now, while the Rapturd is hamstrung by that lil V6. Maybe they'll still get the TRX out in time to exploit their V6 as Furd may drag their feet on the 5.0. They are steadfastly and hardheadedly committed to EcoBust. We'll see :box: :lockedandloaded:

Interesting times for RAM.
It'll be interesting to see what RAM does with the PW in 2020. :rockon:
2018 RAM 2500 Power Wagon :rockon:
2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux
2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE7

Ramajama
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:35 pm

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:49 am

MikeKey wrote:
Sweet5ltr wrote:Raptor owners are imploding, it's hysterical reading the replies on that forum. Everything from 'incorrect tire pressure' to 'Ram rigged the testing' is being discussed.

Why is it such a controversy, the Raptor lost to two vehicles with better approach, breakover, and departure angles. Not only that, the other two vehicles had front and rear locking diffs and naturally aspirated engines. Unless the 3.5 twin-turbo engine is under load, it's not building positive manifold pressure continuously like a typical belt-driven roots/twin-screw style blower. Turbo engines make phenomenal torque as they're incredibly efficient, but only at WOT or under an extreme load! The Raptor is engineered to be the best factory production vehicle for 'Baja 1000 style' high-speed off roading. Unfortunately, nearly no realistic off-roading scenario is done this way, so it's no surprise that it lost in this type of real-world testing.

Basically what I've been saying about the Rapturd forever. :cheers: You hit the nail on the head. It is way more of a niche vehicle than anyone realizes. And it doesn't translate well to other forms of offroading nearly as well as you'd think.
Word! X2
2018 RAM 2500 Power Wagon :rockon:
2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux
2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE7

Ramajama
50_Posts
50_Posts
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:35 pm

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by Ramajama » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:53 am

Rapturd might be a good PreRunner truck but the big ole PW did pretty good with these high speed runs. (See video) They got some particularly good air in some jumps during this photo shoot as well.

https://youtu.be/EpgOznHDBQE
Attachments
C5A0BF34-8BE1-404B-8EDD-80080486C170.JPG
2018 RAM 2500 Power Wagon :rockon:
2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux
2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE7

User avatar
MSCH2112
250_Posts
250_Posts
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:45 pm
Model Year: 2012
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by MSCH2112 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:50 am

IMG_3776.JPG
saw this the other day. at least it's not a grocery getter.

mike
2017 Ram 2500 Longhorn Cummins
295 60 R20 Nitto Ridge Graplers
Gooseneck
Pace Edwards elec.Metal Jacket bed cover
yeah and running boards for the wifey
Support Search and Rescue-GET LOST

SOLD 2012 Power Wagon Laramie
w/ 12k Warn winch, Nav, Sunroof, Leer Topper, AMP boards, Spray on-bedliner-rockers-flares

SOLD 2005 Power Wagon w/ 12k Warn winch, loaded incl. leather, rockrails, nav, sunroof, 9.5 ti Warn winch in the rear, Gibson Headers and catback, Pace-Edwards full metal elec. bed cover and elec. tailgate lock, PIAA driving lights behind grill

2009 Victory Jackpot Cory Ness Edition

2016 GMC Yukon Denali XL

2016 Volvo XC90

User avatar
TankerZak
500_Posts
500_Posts
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:43 pm
Model Year: 2016

Re: Raptor vs. Power Wagon vs. ZR2

Post by TankerZak » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:03 pm

I have a co-worker with the ZR2. I need to check it out. I don't think he did a ton of research. Like he doesn't know what IFS and the differences between that and a solid axle... it's odd.
2016 Granite Crystal Metallic Power Wagon Laramie, graphics delete, debadged, Thuren front and rear coils, Thuren rear swaybar links, Thuren front and rear trackbars, Traxada rear 1 inch spacers, King 3.0 (Stage 4) front and 2.5 (Stage 3) rear shocks, Boogie front bump stops, Cooper STT Pro 37x13.50R17 on XD Machette 17x9 +18 wheels, Centramatics, 5.13 gears, DOR steering brace, Thuren truss, Thuren King Steering Damper, Synergy Steering Kit, Thuren PW front bumper, Thuren rear bumper, White Knuckle rock sliders, Dethloff skid plate, Dethloff rear sway bar spacers, Purple Cranium Half Spider front and rear diff guards, Airlift 5000 Ultimate airbags with Daystar cradles, Bakflip Revolver X2 tonneau, Factor55 Ultrahook with 100ft 7/16 A.R.E. Spidersilk synthetic winch line, Zroadz Grill with slim 20 inch light bar, DDM Tuning LEDs/HIDs, Rigid Side Shooter ditch lights, KC rock lights, Rigid fog lights, Baja Designs rear lights, Magnaflow 19200 modified with upgraded resonator and after axle dump, tinted front windows 35%.

Post Reply