Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

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Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by outwardbound » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:56 am

Hello all,

Considering making the jump into a power again as I have long been impressed with the out of the box capability and handling for HD pickup. That said, I am wondering why there are so many newer PWs (14 and up) being traded in so early with only 30K miles or less on them. Is it the infamous death wobble/front end issues, fuel economy, etc... Just wondering what the community of interest has to say about and if its the front end, is spending the money up front to replace with better components the final fix?


thanks in advance!

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:43 pm

outwardbound wrote:Hello all,

Considering making the jump into a power again as I have long been impressed with the out of the box capability and handling for HD pickup. That said, I am wondering why there are so many newer PWs (14 and up) being traded in so early with only 30K miles or less on them. Is it the infamous death wobble/front end issues, fuel economy, etc... Just wondering what the community of interest has to say about and if its the front end, is spending the money up front to replace with better components the final fix?


thanks in advance!
Death wobble does not affect the new trucks. The suspension was updated in 2014 and death wobble is not possible on the radius arm trucks. The suspension is overall better in terms of ride quality on the newer trucks. Although mod wise, there is some debate about which is better. There are currently less options on radius arm trucks.

A lot of people buy the Power Wagon and trade up to a Cummins because the Power Wagon doesn't really meet their needs for towing, etc.

My 2015 was only owned for a couple of months. Also some people just buy a truck and realize it's not for them.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by 14PowerWaggy » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:11 pm

I don't think it's that odd... Up until I fell in love with my 15 wagon I use to get a new vehicle every 18-24 months... Rarely did they ever have over 36K on them when traded or sold... May also be seeing leased vehicles that have come back in as well... As stated earlier, I love my 15 and have no plans on getting rid of it anytime soon... Has 27K on it now...
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by JFordBronco » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:26 pm

I also have a '15 PW. There is not many upgrades available, but I like it, it does what I need it to do. My "heavy towing" is a 16' utility trailer with four four-wheelers on it. I wish I could find headers that weren't an arm and a leg and I'd like to upgrade to 4.88s and 35s, but tires have to wear out in order for that to happen.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by outwardbound » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:19 pm

MikeKey wrote:
outwardbound wrote:Hello all,

Considering making the jump into a power again as I have long been impressed with the out of the box capability and handling for HD pickup. That said, I am wondering why there are so many newer PWs (14 and up) being traded in so early with only 30K miles or less on them. Is it the infamous death wobble/front end issues, fuel economy, etc... Just wondering what the community of interest has to say about and if its the front end, is spending the money up front to replace with better components the final fix?


thanks in advance!
Death wobble does not affect the new trucks. The suspension was updated in 2014 and death wobble is not possible on the radius arm trucks. The suspension is overall better in terms of ride quality on the newer trucks. Although mod wise, there is some debate about which is better. There are currently less options on radius arm trucks.

A lot of people buy the Power Wagon and trade up to a Cummins because the Power Wagon doesn't really meet their needs for towing, etc.

My 2015 was only owned for a couple of months. Also some people just buy a truck and realize it's not for them.

Interesting note on the death wobble. I brought it up because I read on this forum that some guys with the 14s were experiencing it with as little as 18K miles. Only reason I asked about it. I knew it was much more prevalent on older models and is always a concern on modified solid axle vehicles. But was interested to see it had been happening in the 14+ trucks. But I haven't heard any instances yet of the 16/17 MY trucks so maybe the front end components are better.

Thanks.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Rodeoflyer » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:48 pm

I think a lot of people get hung up on the mileage (or lack thereof). I would surmise dealers are lying to them about the mileage figures, as mine did :-). I laughed at him when he said 20mpg on the highway was possible. Maybe downhill with eco/mds

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Last edited by Rodeoflyer on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:04 pm

outwardbound wrote:
MikeKey wrote:
outwardbound wrote:Hello all,

Considering making the jump into a power again as I have long been impressed with the out of the box capability and handling for HD pickup. That said, I am wondering why there are so many newer PWs (14 and up) being traded in so early with only 30K miles or less on them. Is it the infamous death wobble/front end issues, fuel economy, etc... Just wondering what the community of interest has to say about and if its the front end, is spending the money up front to replace with better components the final fix?


thanks in advance!
Death wobble does not affect the new trucks. The suspension was updated in 2014 and death wobble is not possible on the radius arm trucks. The suspension is overall better in terms of ride quality on the newer trucks. Although mod wise, there is some debate about which is better. There are currently less options on radius arm trucks.

A lot of people buy the Power Wagon and trade up to a Cummins because the Power Wagon doesn't really meet their needs for towing, etc.

My 2015 was only owned for a couple of months. Also some people just buy a truck and realize it's not for them.

Interesting note on the death wobble. I brought it up because I read on this forum that some guys with the 14s were experiencing it with as little as 18K miles. Only reason I asked about it. I knew it was much more prevalent on older models and is always a concern on modified solid axle vehicles. But was interested to see it had been happening in the 14+ trucks. But I haven't heard any instances yet of the 16/17 MY trucks so maybe the front end components are better.

Thanks.
If I'm not mistaken there are some 14 trucks that were built that still have the old style suspension. Just like there are a few 2017 Laramies that have been built. But are now rare.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by coder » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:58 pm

Hello outwardbound,

I almost never see a used 14+ PW for sale, other than fuel economy there aren't really any negatives or chronic points of failure, what gives you the impression there's a lot being put up for sale early?
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Bill2014 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:04 pm

Rodeoflyer wrote:I think a lot of people get hung up on the mileage (or lack thereof). I would surmise dealers are lying to them about the mileage figures, as mine did :-). I laughed at him when he said 20mpg on the highway was possible. Maybe downhill with eco/mds

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Yeah- 20mpg is bullshit, the best you're gonna get regularly on the highway with a '14+ PW is 17-18mpg with hard tires... :duel:

And I seem to recall that the best mileage I could get out of my '13 PW was about 14mpg.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Rodeoflyer » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:30 pm

I'm seeing used 2017's for sale now. You're right Bill, those numbers are right on target for stock tires and suspension then downhill from there.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by TwinStick » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:46 pm

IMHO, 2 reasons.

1) fuel mileage
2) as stated, buyer does not do their homework on towing & as a result, ends up with a CTD, either because their camper was flat out too heavy for the Hemi, or at the maximum limit of the Hemi & found out the transmission just was not up to the task & upshifted/downshifted constantly. The abundance of torque of the CTD makes up for the lack of proper transmission gearing. Towing at maximum weight all the time, is a whole different ballgame than the occasional 7500lb tow, especially in mountain country. I have been there, done that. There is a LOT OF TRUTH to the saying "Just because it can, does not mean that you should.

But the new ones have steering issues as well: http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/vie ... f=2&t=4880
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G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by waldo » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:44 pm

I pretty much never see new or used ones on the lots where I am in Ohio. Or on the road for that matter. I think I saw one in WV on a Forest Service road this spring where I was trout fishing.

I had to order mine.

The dealers in my area stock and sell a ton of 1/2 ton Rams. The few 3/4 ton and up trucks they order for the lots are Cummins powered.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:03 pm

Some guy in Boise is trying to sell one without a front bumper, something about not being able to fit 40's.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Bill2014 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:11 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:Some guy in Boise is trying to sell one without a front bumper, something about not being able to fit 40's.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by outwardbound » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:57 pm

coder wrote:Hello outwardbound,

I almost never see a used 14+ PW for sale, other than fuel economy there aren't really any negatives or chronic points of failure, what gives you the impression there's a lot being put up for sale early?
Hello,

I guess I got the impression after doing autotrader searches as cars.com searches nationwide and seeing a lot of 1-2 year old PWs with low miles being sold as used cars. Just curious if there was any big reason.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by outwardbound » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:57 pm

coder wrote:Hello outwardbound,

I almost never see a used 14+ PW for sale, other than fuel economy there aren't really any negatives or chronic points of failure, what gives you the impression there's a lot being put up for sale early?
Hello,

I guess I got the impression after doing autotrader searches as cars.com searches nationwide and seeing a lot of 1-2 year old PWs with low miles being sold as used cars. Just curious if there was any big reason.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by RustyPW » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Some of those vehicles on autotrader are leftover, being advertised as used sometimes, or a demo.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by jlilnc14 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 pm

Well i'm glad to hear about the new suspension and no death wobble. Is the problem with passenger front tire wearing prematurely fixed?
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:14 pm

jlilnc14 wrote:Well i'm glad to hear about the new suspension and no death wobble. Is the problem with passenger front tire wearing prematurely fixed?
Hasn't happened to me.
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:40 pm

jlilnc14 wrote:Well i'm glad to hear about the new suspension and no death wobble. Is the problem with passenger front tire wearing prematurely fixed?
That was just the 3rd gens. Ram discovered it was caused by doing one wheel burnouts
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by nts007 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:14 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
jlilnc14 wrote:Well i'm glad to hear about the new suspension and no death wobble. Is the problem with passenger front tire wearing prematurely fixed?
That was just the 3rd gens. Ram discovered it was caused by doing one wheel burnouts
That was only the front wheel drive models though
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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by TankerZak » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:21 am

If I had to guess. You have to love the PW for what it is not what it isn't. If you buy because it looks cool but drive to the mall all day and then tow your RV on the weekends you'll be disappointed. It can do those things but you trade off a bit for that off-road capability. If you're not using that off road capability it's hard to remember why you made those compromises. So you trade away... then you get your chevy stuck and remember why you bought the PW.

If all you're doing is daily driving and towing your RV, a diesel will be better and the GM is the most car-like of the bunch. If you want it all, driving, towing, and the off road (Not just the off road sticker) then the PW is for you.

I think a few people just buy for the PW off road sticker when it's so much more. But you have to make a few compromises.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by TwinStick » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:09 pm

the GM is the most car-like of the bunch.

So you trade away... then you get your chevy stuck and remember why you bought the PW.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Saying "I want a truck with the ride of a car" is right up there with saying "I want an accurate rife that will shoot 1.5 miles with the recoil of a .22 cal AR15" !!! :lol:
In WNY State. 2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls an 18' 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by RAM4ROKS » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:28 pm

Fuel economy, towing, and the realization that maybe they don't actually need a burly offroad truck seem to be the top 3 reasons. I think it's more a sign of the increase in visibility of the Power Wagon. Up until recent years, our trucks have pretty much flown under the radar, the hidden almost off-menu option, LOL! Now FCA actually has been pushing them so, we see more of them now overall, not just as trades. The closest Wagon to me (same town as me, I know the (now former) owner) got traded in due to him realizing after a year that all he ended up doing was towing and he never wheeled it so, he traded in for a Cummins.

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Re: Why are there so many newer PWs being traded in so early

Post by Z's2016PW » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:53 pm

I have never seen any used wagons on the lots around here. Every other day I will spot another one on the road. Although an '05 regular cab is just around the corner from me. Love the ride! It isn't half ton soft, but better than a stock 2500. As stated visibility is great for such a big vehicle. It tows and hauls what I need it to. A CTD would have been overkill for me and wouldn't have been nearly as good off-road. The 6.4 and the 6 speed get slightly better mileage. Though I would consider these trucks similar to older trucks with a big block. You get the same mileage regardless of what you are doing.

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