springs question

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Rodeoflyer
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Re: springs question

Post by Rodeoflyer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:25 am

I don't doubt it. It drives perfectly now and definitely didn't after the shop alignment. I think it needs the extra caster with larger tires and lift. Most alignment places try to keep you within stock specs.

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Re: springs question

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:57 am

olyelr wrote:Ha, from what i have been reading quite frequently, most home alignment jobs are better than some of the guys doing it with machines.
Home alignment is might be better than the scrub running the machine but it's not the machine's fault.
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Re: springs question

Post by Rodeoflyer » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:59 am

Haha, yeah absolutely.

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Re: springs question

Post by cb1987 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:36 pm

Rodeoflyer wrote:Those cams should be set the same on each side.
do you have a photo or something of the device to measure the caster angle ? I checked 5 or 6 trucks at a local dealer (all diesels) and none of them were even close to having the cams the same from side to side. cant remember if it was this thread or not but I questioned the accuracy of those cam plates that are welded to the radius arms. if they aren't precisely welded in place then whats the point of setting both cams the same. hell whats the purpose of even having those marked plates at all. so the question is, is the caster truly the same on both sides if the cams are set to the same marks ? I haven't had mine checked on a machine so I cant say for sure. although I thought about having it put on a machine just to get the print out and see whats going on. but no chance in hell im letting some high school flatbiller start turning bolts on my truck however, ill do all that myself if need be.

my truck drives perfectly straight with no pull. when turning a corner in either direction if you release the wheel it returns to about the 11 or 1 position, although not immediately. not sure if this is normal or not, maybe ill check my Tacoma tomorrow and compare it to my pw. since my passenger side cam is turned farther to the rear than the driver side, giving it more positive caster, and MAYBE the reason the driver side sits about 1/2" low, I loosened the driver side cam and turned it farther back to match the passenger side. it did seem the lift the driver side alittle, more so the rear than the front it seemed. but it appeared when making a turn ( cant recall which direction) the wheel didn't really want to return to the 11 or 1 position like it did before, which doesn't make sense since adding more positive caster should make the steering wheel return to center faster I would think but maybe not. since I put marks on the cam before I loosened it, I just put it back to the original position until I get a permanent game plan of what im going to do. I guess theres a chance my caster is just fine and the driver side springs are just a bit low compared to the passenger side. most people would never notice but I have a eagle eye about shit that isn't perfectly straight and level

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Re: springs question

Post by MikeKey » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:06 am

cb1987 wrote: but I questioned the accuracy of those cam plates that are welded to the radius arms. if they aren't precisely welded in place then whats the point of setting both cams the same. hell whats the purpose of even having those marked plates at all.
It's not like those are all hand built, they're most likely perfectly assembled by a machine, with an accuracy greater than a human doing it around the clock.

I just had mine in for an alignment. And what do you know, my lean is now gone. They had a positive toe on my truck before hand. Now I'm at 0 toe. And they nailed the cross caster perfectly to Thuren's truck. Truck is riding beautifully.

But I think I need to adjust the King steering stabilizer since I have serious pull to the right now.
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Re: springs question

Post by Rodeoflyer » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:48 am

I just got pissed after handing someone a $100 bill and not getting what I asked for (4.5 degrees caster and zero toe) so I figured what the hell and did it myself. I agree what's the point of having caster alignment marks on the arms if the cams aren't correct from the manufacturer? My cams were set exactly the same from the factory at zero both sides. The magnetic angle finder was placed on the flat top of the upper balljoint and is available here https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Finder- ... B01FOQK82Y or any auto part store.

I'll add that it's a good idea to also loosen the cab side bolts of the radius arms along with the upper axle mount bolts when adjusting the caster. You could have some bind in the bushings. Give the truck some good bounces to settle at ride height then set your caster and retorque everything.

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Re: springs question

Post by cb1987 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:08 pm

update on this. went to a local shop as they said they could put it on their machine and give me the printout for free. basically I just wanted to see what was going on. no chance in hell I was letting them clueless fools touch any bolts. almost thought they was gonna rip my mirrors off when they pulled it in the bay. anyways enough about them clowns. caster was on the highside with .3* favoring the passenger side just like the fsm suggests, which I believed was causing my truck to lean 1/2". so when I got home I loosened the top and bottom bolts and adjusted it a bit. turned the driver side cam slightly toward front of the truck. turned passenger side cam towards front alittle over 1 mark. so now both cam arrows are pretty close to the same position side to side. driver side is just a hair rearward of straight down, passenger is just a hair farther rearward than driver. now only about 1/8-1/4" lean depending where you measure, which is fine by me and could be from the fuel tank etc. seems to drive fine also. toe looks a bit off but I haven't decided when or if ill mess with it. does anyone know what the steer ahead is ?
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Re: springs question

Post by cb1987 » Fri May 04, 2018 2:44 pm

figured I would update this. my ocd wouldn't let me forget the driver side was leaning, so I kept trying to figure out what the hell was causing it. 1/2" just seemed excessive. my last '16 truck was within a 1/8" or less, side to side. so why should this '17 be any different is what I wanted to know. some of it may have been from the cross caster, which was within the factory limit, but I took most of the cross caster out. truck still drives great, really no different than with the cross caster, atleast not that I notice. the rear looked pretty good side to side but the damn driver front corner was still 1/2" low, even after the cross caster was removed and it was pissing me off. after loosening all the radius arm bolts and making sure nothing was binding up, still it was low. swapped springs side to side, still low. today I think I may have found the problem, which I suspected early on but didn't put much thought into it at the time. turns out I think the smart bar was manufactured a bit twisted, which was pulling down on the driver front corner. went to ace hardware and got a 1/2" steel bushing and put it between the smartbar arm and the vertical link going to the axle. shazaam now my lean is gone. under 1/8" now and im fine with that

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Re: springs question

Post by Colibri » Fri May 04, 2018 7:53 pm

I just did my truck in the driveway a few weeks ago and then had it verified on an alignment rack. My calibrated eyeball netted me 4.8 and 5.1 caster and 0.04 total toe. We’re essentially aligning a covered wagon or buckboard lol. It’s hard to screw up if you don’t over complicate things
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Re: springs question

Post by Colibri » Fri May 04, 2018 7:57 pm

cb1987 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 2:44 pm
figured I would update this. my ocd wouldn't let me forget the driver side was leaning, so I kept trying to figure out what the hell was causing it. 1/2" just seemed excessive. my last '16 truck was within a 1/8" or less, side to side. so why should this '17 be any different is what I wanted to know. some of it may have been from the cross caster, which was within the factory limit, but I took most of the cross caster out. truck still drives great, really no different than with the cross caster, atleast not that I notice. the rear looked pretty good side to side but the damn driver front corner was still 1/2" low, even after the cross caster was removed and it was pissing me off. after loosening all the radius arm bolts and making sure nothing was binding up, still it was low. swapped springs side to side, still low. today I think I may have found the problem, which I suspected early on but didn't put much thought into it at the time. turns out I think the smart bar was manufactured a bit twisted, which was pulling down on the driver front corner. went to ace hardware and got a 1/2" steel bushing and put it between the smartbar arm and the vertical link going to the axle. shazaam now my lean is gone. under 1/8" now and im fine with that

Good job sticking with it and figuring it out to your satisfaction sir! Sometimes it just takes a little time
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Re: springs question

Post by olyelr » Fri May 04, 2018 8:12 pm

cb1987 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 2:44 pm
figured I would update this. my ocd wouldn't let me forget the driver side was leaning, so I kept trying to figure out what the hell was causing it. 1/2" just seemed excessive. my last '16 truck was within a 1/8" or less, side to side. so why should this '17 be any different is what I wanted to know. some of it may have been from the cross caster, which was within the factory limit, but I took most of the cross caster out. truck still drives great, really no different than with the cross caster, atleast not that I notice. the rear looked pretty good side to side but the damn driver front corner was still 1/2" low, even after the cross caster was removed and it was pissing me off. after loosening all the radius arm bolts and making sure nothing was binding up, still it was low. swapped springs side to side, still low. today I think I may have found the problem, which I suspected early on but didn't put much thought into it at the time. turns out I think the smart bar was manufactured a bit twisted, which was pulling down on the driver front corner. went to ace hardware and got a 1/2" steel bushing and put it between the smartbar arm and the vertical link going to the axle. shazaam now my lean is gone. under 1/8" now and im fine with that

Is it possible that when the sway bar disconnect re-connected after the last time you used it, that the truck was essentially not level before it connected? I have wondered this in the past. If the axle is not perfectly level with the truck, can the sway bar still re-connect? If so, I think this would cause some force to be applied to the springs on one side of the truck... which would give you the issue you are dealing with.
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Re: springs question

Post by DamageWagon » Sun May 06, 2018 9:06 pm

The sway bar sliding ring is keyed, it can only reconnect when level. To say your smartbar was causing 1/2” lean means there must have been a pretty good amount of load on the sway bar at static height, which is odd because there’s a good bit of play inside the smartbar so the center of motion has no load

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Re: springs question

Post by cb1987 » Sat May 12, 2018 10:07 am

if everything is as it should be then the smartbar should lock when the end of its arms are parallel laterally with the frame. the axle should be parallel at this time as well. I don't have much explanation why the driver front corner was low. steering box and battery are only things there but why was my '16 level side to side if this were the case. maybe someone with a new pw could check theres and see if either front corner is low ? hell maybe some of the radius arm bolts are still alittle bound up. ive loosened them once but maybe I should loosen them and drive down the street and see if that does any good. I swapped springs side to side and nothing changed so ive ruled out a bad spring. most of the cross caster should be gone since I turned the cams close to the same mark.

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Re: springs question

Post by DamageWagon » Sat May 12, 2018 6:23 pm

These trucks always sag on the drivers side. Fuel tank, battery, driver, the way the front trackbar moves the chassis on the axle/springs, the drivers side always goes down first. Swapping springs should have an effect though. If swapping springs changes nothing, and your radius arm bushings aren’t SUPER bound up, then you for sure have more weight on the drivers side

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Re: springs question

Post by cb1987 » Sat May 12, 2018 8:18 pm

I get what your saying but this is new '17 truck. once I took the cross caster out, the rear pretty much leveled out side to side. even though there wasn't hardly much cross caster to begin with. after that it was just the left front corner that was still low. steering box and battery is in that corner but why didn't my '16 lean in that corner when both trucks are identical ? people say all trucks have more weight on driver side which may be true but then all trucks should lean over but they all don't

one of the main things that was bugging me was when I backed up and turned right the 35" tire would rub on the left plastic piece of the fender. no other tires would ever rub. this is one reason I knew it was low and also I could visually see it was low compared to the other side

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Re: springs question

Post by Colibri » Sat May 12, 2018 11:12 pm

It may be a case of tolerance stacking
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Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
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Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
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