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springs question

Postby cb1987 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:21 pm

on the '14+ models is it common for there to be about 1/2" lean to the drivers side or do they normally sit eqaul from side to side ? seen a '16 with full fuel tank that sat level from side to side but seen a '17 thats 1/2" low on drivers side with hardly no fuel. not sure if the springs are screwed up or just normal. i could see 1/8" being acceptable but 1/2 seems excessive even with these soft springs. maybe some people with a new truck could check theirs and see ?
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Re: springs question

Postby DamageWagon » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:33 pm

Driver, battery and fuel tank are on drivers side. Exhaust is on passengers side. That's a big offset. Especially if you run aftermarket springs and they don't have different rates for each side. That sounds pretty normal. When my old springs were sagged out I had about 1-1.125" lower on the drivers side.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:42 pm

im talking new truck with stock springs. no driver and just 90lb fuel. 1/2" lean seems like alot but i dont know. hopefully a few other people with new trucks will chime in
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Re: springs question

Postby MikeKey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:43 am

Alignment might be screwed up. Seriously. Don Thuren has a note about this on his site under 2013+ newer radius arm truck caster notes.... https://www.thurenfabrication.com/tech/ ... dling.html

My truck did not have a lean till just recently after getting an alignment. And apparently, shops have a bad habit of messing up our trucks.

It is VERY important on these trucks that you don't adjust the driver and passenger side cams too far out of balance. In other words, make sure there is not much manual cross caster. If one cam is for example pointed straight down, the opposite side cam should be no more than one mark forward or back. I have seen alignment shops do some crazy things here. If you do put them far out of balance, you can get some drastic lean in the suspension. Reason being, radius arms make the front axle act like one big swaybar. With the caster cams far out of balance, it gives a similar effect as having different length swaybar links, which would force a chassis lean. If you do need a little caster bias fine tuning, which is pretty normal, loosen the upper radius arm bolts at the axle also, then re-tighten once the handling is good. This will let the axle center up as best as it can, by using slop in the hardware to help the chassis find neutral.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:12 am

it only has 1800mi and drives straight as a arrow with perfect tire wear. im thinking the alignment is fine.

im not understanding how your alignment would make the truck lean
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Re: springs question

Postby Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:04 am

Cross caster. It's the alignment.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:15 am

ill check the radius arm cams and see if the factory may have adjusted it wrong
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Re: springs question

Postby Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:23 am

cb1987 wrote:ill check the radius arm cams and see if the factory may have adjusted it wrong



This is the gut doing the OE alignment.
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Re: springs question

Postby MikeKey » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:25 am

I wish he was joking.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:32 am

they put the bed on a bit crooked so i wouldnt be suprised with other crooked shit. funny thing is it had blue pencil marks all over the bed where somebody signed off on it
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Re: springs question

Postby Colibri » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:49 am

I'm going to agree it is likely cross caster, some fool did that to my truck once, cam bolts facing 180* opposite each other. Put so much bind in my suspension that the passenger rear corner was 3/4" low. When I went to adjust it the suspension unloaded and rocked the whole truck slightly. Cross caster is not possible on a solid front axle, the knuckles are welded in place. The only way to get a cross caster reading on a laser alignment rack is to put the whole thing in a bind, it's bushing deflection that allows the reading the tech is shooting for.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:41 pm

i got to looking at thos cams but im not sure how accurate the dial plate is. since its welded on, i guess its only as accurate as the jig it was fixed in when the assembly was welded. not to mention the accuracy of the marks on the plate itself when it was made. anyways heres what they looked like. now where close to 180* off but maybe far enough to cause my truck to lean a bit, mostly in the LR corner. i measured ground to fender well and also axle perch to bottom of bump stop. LR is 1/2" low. LF is about 1/4" low. ill do some more digging into this because i still cant see 1/2" being normal on new truck with virtually a empty payload. when looking at the tail gate and bumper from the rear it seems to have a definite lean to the driver side in the LR corner. maybe im over exaggerating whats really there but that corner does seem to lean down alittle. according to that thuren article the cams shouldn't be more than one mark difference. clearly i have more like 1-1/4 or maybe darn close to 1-1/2 or so. perhaps that's enough to cause a lean ?

driver side. i put red mark to show where the passenger side arrow is

20170717_2038181.jpg


passenger. red marks shows where driver side arrow is

20170717_2039011.jpg
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Re: springs question

Postby Reloaderguy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:04 pm

Get a real alignment at a real alignment shop.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:14 am

MikeKey wrote:Alignment might be screwed up. Seriously. Don Thuren has a note about this on his site under 2013+ newer radius arm truck caster notes.... https://www.thurenfabrication.com/tech/ ... dling.html

My truck did not have a lean till just recently after getting an alignment. And apparently, shops have a bad habit of messing up our trucks.

It is VERY important on these trucks that you don't adjust the driver and passenger side cams too far out of balance. In other words, make sure there is not much manual cross caster. If one cam is for example pointed straight down, the opposite side cam should be no more than one mark forward or back. I have seen alignment shops do some crazy things here. If you do put them far out of balance, you can get some drastic lean in the suspension. Reason being, radius arms make the front axle act like one big swaybar. With the caster cams far out of balance, it gives a similar effect as having different length swaybar links, which would force a chassis lean. If you do need a little caster bias fine tuning, which is pretty normal, loosen the upper radius arm bolts at the axle also, then re-tighten once the handling is good. This will let the axle center up as best as it can, by using slop in the hardware to help the chassis find neutral.


did they have your cams screwed up and how did you fix it ?
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Re: springs question

Postby OH17wagon » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:42 pm

I have a 17 with just under 900 miles on it and it definitely has a noticeable lean towards the drivers side. I haven't had it looked at yet.
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Re: springs question

Postby cb1987 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:16 pm

OH17wagon wrote:I have a 17 with just under 900 miles on it and it definitely has a noticeable lean towards the drivers side. I haven't had it looked at yet.


if you get a chance you can check yourself and report back what you have. the method is from the 2017 service manual. I guess theorectically you could have a side to side difference of .8" and still be in spec. +.4" on one side and -.4" on the other.

I was thinking I might jack mine up on the frame and let the axle down all the way and see if maybe some suspension bolts have been over tightened and go from there in trying to sort this out.

20170720_160539.jpeg


20170720_160612.jpeg
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