Diesel Power Wagon... Again..

[LagunaH1]

The production numbers for the PW are far too small for FCA to spend the money it would take to make a diesel PW


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[TwinStick]

http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1702-rum ... 6-diesels/

May be of interest to some.

[NickTF]

When they put a 12v in a new truck I'll care. When they continue to supply us with $$$$ nightmares I'll gladly deal with paying more for fuel/gas when pulling a load.

[Reloaderguy]

I wouldn't buy a truck with a VM V6 in it.

[SeahawkDriver]

Funny I don't hear the Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited crowd clammoring for a 6.7 Cummins... I wonder why. Probably because they do their crawling with gears and axle articulation, not raw toque at the cost of tremendous added weight, parts, emissions, complexity, and cost.

It's not like you can't buy a well-optioned 2500 CC 4x4 CTD and outfit it with aftermarket suspension, winch, and lockers. In fact, people go that mod route all the time, those types of rigs are everywhere. However when you factor the price of the truck (maybe $60k after discounts, rebates, and taxes), and then turn around and dump cash into aftermarket components, tires/wheels, lift, axles, winch, you're back to the $80,000 range. And in the end, do you really have a better "true" off-roader than a bone stock PW that can be had between $45-55k? The torque and engine longevity are nice to have, but you've lost the ability for an internal winch, so you've had to drop $2000+ on a fancy winch bumper, you've added 800lbs alone with the CTD and another 200 with the bumper. If you've modded the suspension for off-road and articulation then you've effectively cut the payload and toe rating IN HALF, so why the diesel again? And that's what it comes down to, $80,000 for a diesel PW and you have no ability to tow/haul anything close to what the Cummins is capable of.

[FirerescuePW]

I like this guy...

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[vanished]

The only 'why' I could defend is 20mpg vs 14mpg...


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[OffroadTreks]

The only 'why' I could defend is 20mpg vs 14mpg...

As explained that's because you're not looking at the overall picture. That fuel savings is nothing, you're spending twice as much everywhere else. Diesel is currently more than regular, DEF, more expensive maintenance, more expensive initial investment. Average diesel cost was 2.50 and regular is around 2.33 (just googled the national averages) Maybe if we were back in 2008 when diesel was cheaper.

I'm getting 16.5 mpg on summer blend btw.

[vanished]

The only 'why' I could defend is 20mpg vs 14mpg...

As explained that's because you're not looking at the overall picture. That fuel savings is nothing, you're spending twice as much everywhere else. Diesel is currently more than regular, DEF, more expensive maintenance, more expensive initial investment. Average diesel cost was 2.50 and regular is around 2.33 (just googled the national averages) Maybe if we were back in 2008 when diesel was cheaper.

I'm getting 16.5 mpg on summer blend btw.

I have both... and I like to poke.


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[RustyPW]

I like this guy...

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Maybe you should ask him out.

Get the diesel. Mod it will aftermarket lockers and etc. Where's your warranty? PW, everything is covered.

[Rodeoflyer]

Not to mention emissions problems and now the SCR debacle. I won't own another diesel truck.

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[nts007]

Funny I don't hear the Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited crowd clammoring for a 6.7 Cummins... I wonder why. Probably because they do their crawling with gears and axle articulation, not raw toque at the cost of tremendous added weight, parts, emissions, complexity, and cost.

It's not like you can't buy a well-optioned 2500 CC 4x4 CTD and outfit it with aftermarket suspension, winch, and lockers. In fact, people go that mod route all the time, those types of rigs are everywhere. However when you factor the price of the truck (maybe $60k after discounts, rebates, and taxes), and then turn around and dump cash into aftermarket components, tires/wheels, lift, axles, winch, you're back to the $80,000 range. And in the end, do you really have a better "true" off-roader than a bone stock PW that can be had between $45-55k? The torque and engine longevity are nice to have, but you've lost the ability for an internal winch, so you've had to drop $2000+ on a fancy winch bumper, you've added 800lbs alone with the CTD and another 200 with the bumper. If you've modded the suspension for off-road and articulation then you've effectively cut the payload and toe rating IN HALF, so why the diesel again? And that's what it comes down to, $80,000 for a diesel PW and you have no ability to tow/haul anything close to what the Cummins is capable of.

I've avoided this thread. But now I'm here. I am so far under that 80k mark that it's kind of a joke. Unless you pay someone else to do everything for you and they know you're a sucker. (Like aev haha)
I haul just as heavy with my 3/4 ton now as when I did before it got powerwagon axles and suspension. I also get to enjoy 1100km per 120 litres running 4.56 gears and 37" tires. There are very few rigs done as you state though. 99% are guys running lifts (not suspension systems) and big tires and just using brute torque to get around. They don't bother with lockers and a winch is an after thought. After they are buried in the mud up to the door handles. Or if they get hung up on a Prius

Is my truck heavier than a stock wagon. Of course. I sag about an inch more on thuren 3" coils as a powerwagon would. Another 200 lbs with the winch that will be mounted soon isn't going to make much difference. And how many wagons shed their winch and get a big ass bumper anyway reloacating their winch.
My payload rating I would argue is just the same as any with the air bags I run for towing. But nearly every truck setup for towing has air bags and nearly every wagon that hauls heavy has air bags so that's a nonissue. Towing? I don't see any loss in towing. I effectively have the same overall final drive ratio as a stock 2500 diesel with 3.73's. and I've hauled 15k trailer and equipment with no issues.
Expensive parts? Sure. But just the engine. A new 66rfe found in the wagons is just as pricy as a 68rfe. Everything else is pretty much interchangeable from truck to tuck of the same year. In fact I would argue that the powerwagon option would actually cost more than the diesel option. Billions of cummins to what 400 wagons (you know what I mean) wagon parts piece for piece actually are more expensive leaving the emissions out of the equation since that's a joke anyway.

Sure it's not a rubicon but why would you buy a pw if you are looking for a little jeep. Seems preposterous.

But I'll be damned I'd like to think I have an authentic diesel powerwagon.

Rant over

[verdesardog]

I agree with NTS. I'm a RTOF (retired old fart) and my suspension lifted ctd with open diff's get me anywere I need to go and back. I love the fuel mileage and towing torque. I have not noticed any more maintenance costs than my old V6 dakota other than the larger amout of oil for an oil change. I do have some Carli parts and a free spin kit on the truck. I'll never go back to a gasser!

[OffroadTreks]

And you both have 3rd gen's, a 2008 & 2006. Of course, your costs are less. Your vehicles cost less back then, then a new one. Price comparisons are not the same. You do not have DEF or all the other emissions crap the newer diesels have either. However, you are a good example of the fact that when you own the diesel long term, then eventually it becomes more cost effective. This is why diesel make great fleet vehicles. But if you're the kind of person who gets a new vehicle every 3yrs, it's more expensive.

[Shaved Ice]

I tried to get a 2014 Power Wagon but as everyone remembers, there was a delay in manufacturing that year. I bought a 2014 Cummins instead with the intent on eventually building a diesel Power Wagon (not that there really is such a thing). I had a series of issues, all emissions related. They cleaned the DEF tank due to build-up, then they replaced the DEF tank, then they replaced the catalytic converter, etc. Every time it was under warranty but my downtime without a truck wasn't. Every time the service department gave me different solutions: Only use Chrysler DEF, only use DEF at the pump, only fill up your DEF tank half way, don't let the DEF get too old, don't let your truck idle too long, etc. Also, the throttle response was delayed to the point of being dangerous. I considered deleting, but the cost and loss of warranty wasn't worth it to me. I felt like I had to 'baby' the truck just to keep it happy. Last November, I readily traded in my Cummins for a 2017 Power Wagon. I will never get another diesel.

[vanished]

So far our Cummins has been great, but did throw its first DEF code at 50k this week. But luckily the dealer did the recall and put the new SCR on it..


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[OffroadTreks]

Yea, I hear a lot of complaints about emissions crap and service problems on newer diesels over in the towing section of Airforums. Everyone I know with an older diesel though raves about their trucks. Don't get me wrong, diesel are where it's at for power. But, mhem.

99% are guys running lifts (not suspension systems) and big tires and just using brute torque to get around. They don't bother with lockers and a winch is an after thought. After they are buried in the mud up to the door handles. Or if they get hung up on a Prius

Not to be a trail snob, but this is a pet peeve of mine. And diesel owners seem to be the perpetrators of just "POWER UP EVERYTHING" while destroying trails.

I watched a video recently from a certain fullsize moab event of some diesel Ford trying to get up a section in Moab that Canada Mike and I walked right over, and he's just flooring it and spinning out. Pretty sure he was on 40's or something bigger. Just bellowing smoke sending rock and dirt everywhere. Basically tearing up the approach to this obstacle. And eventually, after some time he gets some traction. But for crying out loud.

So when I hear that, I just think about guys buried up to the doors who think they can just power through everything. Power isn't everything.

[nts007]

But power, with finesse, is exuberant.

I watched said video. It was painful to watch. See I've owned a couple powerwagons. And lots of diesels. I respect both for what each is capable of.
I did a decade of 24 month leases. New truck every couple years was nice. Then one happened to be the powerwagon. If I could turn the clock back I would have purchased it because parting with it was a heartbreak. Now I've finally built my dream truck. Plus .............

3rd gen = ultimate gen

[Reloaderguy]

3rd gen = ultimate gen

[nts007]

I knew you'd agree reloader

[DamageWagon]

4th gen with flatbed and wheelbase shortened said 9" = best gen

[OffroadTreks]

4th gen with flatbed and wheelbase shortened said 9" = best gen

How about 4th gen single cab with 5.7 bed and cummins on 41 inch tires?

[Reloaderguy]

4th gen with flatbed and wheelbase shortened said 9" = best gen

How about 4th gen single cab with 5.7 bed and cummins on 41 inch tires?

IMG_1387.jpg

And all the shitty emissions in the bed because diesel bro's gotta diesel.

[OffroadTreks]

And all the shitty emissions in the bed because diesel bro's gotta diesel.

I'm sure this build is 100% a business write off somehow. Must be nice.

But yeah you're totally right.

[verdesardog]

If I ever have to replace my 06 CTD I will get an old 12 valve. Even less maint. cost than my 06. I would never get a newer one with all the environmental junk on it. The only reason I got a common rail diesel is cause it is quieter

But then Trump is eliminating the EPA so maybe in the future there will be less emission stuff on all vehicles ....