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3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby 2005PW » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 pm

I haven't posted much if any since the move from DT, life and all ya know.
Anyway, I'm at a bit of a crossroads. Keep my '05 PW that has 155k miles or buy a '17 PW. Other than 6.4, 6spd auto, 4.10 and coil rear, what other mechanical changes have been made to the new wagons? Who has made this change and what are your thoughts? How does mpg compare? What are the pros and cons of the '17?
Thanks!

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby NickPic83 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:49 am

Can't help u in the comparison department but I have had my 17 for a week and a half with about 270 miles on it now. I am getting 12 mpg with mostly around town miles. It's still breaking in so I think I will get slightly better mileage.

I have no complaints about the truck and really like everything about it.

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby waldo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:50 am

I have both an 07 and a 16.

They both have their good and bad points. I really prefer the 3 gen for offroad as it has a smaller feel to it and much better visibility than the 16. There really is a huge difference between the two in that aspect. The biggest downside to the 3 gens is the front end components, IMHO.

The new trucks are loaded with electronic crap, not to mention a CAD. For all that, the 16 gets a whopping 1 mpg more than the 07. It does have a better on road ride though. The 6.4 seems decent enough, but the programming for the trans is optimized for a lame attempt at fuel economy and it tends to hold higher gears longer than it should. That's not a big issue if you're driving in flat country, but it becomes very noticeable in a place like WV (compared to Ohio). I find myself in tow-haul mode when in the Eastern WV mountains. Not because of the engine but because of the trans programming.
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby vanished » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:55 am

How do you plan on using it? That would be my first question...

I've had two Gen 3's (a '05 & '06) and got a Gen 4.5 ('15) three months ago, so I can give my honest feelings...

Durability - One of the reasons I got rid of my '06 was the simple fact it was 10 years old, and towing a camper on longer trips with the family made me question this choice, although there was nothing wrong with it and it never let me down. Not saying a new truck under warranty can't cause headaches, but figured I was playing some odds.. The '05 had a lot of maintenance issues and broke down a few times on me (idler pulley, AC fan, wheel bearings, u-joints, brakes, etc) but I admit it had a hard, hard life...

Power/trans - the 6.4l can't be beat... Really no comparison between the 545/5.7l and the newest truck.

Off Road - the 3G's shined.. No comparison.. All the stupid government nannies on my new truck drive me a little batty, but it is what it is... (all new trucks have this crap) The older gen was easier to see out of, shorter, what seemed like better approach/departure angles, and just felt at home in the woods and on the trails.

Towing - I had a 7k camper (along with a dump trailer, horse trailer, etc) so have towed a lot with my 3G's.. Power was never impressive in the mountains and the engine would scream. I was running 35" STT and M/T's on both of the 3rd gens which also weren't ideal tow tires but never had any real trouble. I 'think' the new one will do better but that's just a gut feel, haven't towed with it yet but based on feedback and the other owners the 6.4l should do better here as well.

Payload - the 3G's could handle more from the factory, plain and simple... Or at least from a 'legal' perspective... There are options to improve this.

Ride - the 4.5G's are FAR superior in this aspect.. I really enjoy driving the new truck. Handling, steering, braking, suspension, everything.. It was quite an improvement, but being 10 years newer that doesn't surprise me.

MPG - I never got over 10 MPG HWY on my 3G... New truck is usually 14MPG or so on similar roads.. Around town I'm 11-12 MPG. Although I admit I'm not a fan of the MDS kicking in and the drone that ensues..

Space - can't beat the crew cab if you have kids or a family.. Interior appointments are much nicer as well. I love the inside and space the new truck provides. Much quieter overall as well.

Hope this helps..
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby 2005PW » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:50 am

Thanks everyone, that does help. The conclusion is keep the '05 and get the '17... Now if I can convince my wife we need both

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby olyelr » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:28 am

2005PW wrote:Thanks everyone, that does help. The conclusion is keep the '05 and get the '17... Now if I can convince my wife we need both

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That was going to be my suggestion :lol:

The response from vanished agree's with all my opinions.
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby Pit Slave » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:29 am

No complaints on my 05. I do like the look of the new trucks however, after being in one on the road, I can't say that I like the view or line of sight from the inside out. Not the best visibility out of the two gens.

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby coder » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Hello 2005PW,

If I had to make this decision here are the things I would consider. Personally I would not keep both PW's because of the cost, it is not an inexpensive vehicle to own.

I would keep the 05 if:
- I do a fair amount of off-roading in the PW and prefer function over form in my truck
- I have maintained the 05 well everything works and I don't have to make any major repairs
- I've invested a lot in upgrades (accessories, suspension, wheels/tires, etc.) and everything mostly performs the way want
- I love my 3 Gen and can't imagine life without it

I would get the 2017 if:
- I said "no" to more than half of the above
Last edited by coder on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby 2005PW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:44 am

Thanks Coder, I'm the original owner of my '05 and have been faithful in maintenance. With that said it still has some issues. Service 4wd light and flashing rear locker comes on, dealer chased it for 3 months and never could find the problem. Transmission is slow to engage when first started. I had the valve body replaced once and this is acting like the same problem. Other than a thuren track bar and shocks, the suspension is original, but it is ready for new springs. I have absolutely loved this truck and my biggest hesitation is going to an electronic nanny truck

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby coder » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:21 pm

2005PW wrote:I have absolutely loved this truck and my biggest hesitation is going to an electronic nanny truck.
2005PW, I'm with you regarding the electronic nannies, however the reality is computer programs are cheaper to make than mechanical parts and younger buyers expect them so they're not going away. But I would not let that alone stop you from getting a new PW with a little adjustment in driving style it will take you anywhere the old one did.
Last edited by coder on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Redhead Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby RustyPW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:39 pm

coder wrote:Hello 2005PW,

If I had to make this decision here are the things I would consider. Personally I would not keep both PW's because of the cost, it is not an inexpensive vehicle to own.

I would keep the 05 if:
- I do a fail amount of off-roading in the PW and prefer function over form in my truck
- I have maintained the 05 well everything works and I don't have to make any major repairs
- I've invested a lot in upgrades (accessories, suspension, wheels/tires, etc.) and everything mostly performs the way want
- I love my 3 Gen and can't imagine life without it

I would get the 2017 if:
- I said "no" to more than half of the above

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby nts007 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:45 pm

I'd take the 3rd gen over the new one. Lots of reasons. Why spend another 60grand then all the upgrades. Could make one hell of a truck for way less then 60g.
08 ctd--mini max--thuren 3" coils and shackles--4.56 gears and lockers in pw axles--some lights--afe intake system--bd super b turbo--Banks w/m Injection--Dynatrac Balljoints--bilstein 7100s--37" Cooper ST-Maxx--DOR Long arms--Carli track bar--Manual T-case swap--Full PW Under armor--PSC Hydro Assist
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby RAM4ROKS » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:13 am

If you can swing it, I'd get the 2017 and keep the 2005!
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby DamageWagon » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:52 am

nts007 wrote:I'd take the 3rd gen over the new one. Lots of reasons. Why spend another 60grand then all the upgrades. Could make one hell of a truck for way less then 60g.


This is true. Imagine long arms, linked rear, 4.4 bypass shocks on every corner, internal cage, 37's, supercharger, and you still get a panty hook [emoji6]


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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby MSCH2112 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:55 am

2005PW wrote:Thanks Coder, I'm the original owner of my '05 and have been faithful in maintenance. With that said it still has some issues. Service 4wd light and flashing rear locker comes on, dealer chased it for 3 months and never could find the problem. Transmission is slow to engage when first started. I had the valve body replaced once and this is acting like the same problem. Other than a thuren track bar and shocks, the suspension is original, but it is ready for new springs. I have absolutely loved this truck and my biggest hesitation is going to an electronic nanny truck

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Servicing the disco bar up front (electrical lube) and a new locker magnet in the rear should delete a light or two. warning-that little locker magnet is about $400. oh...you need a new dealer! most are morons in the pw world.

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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby nts007 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:04 pm

Hardwire. Remove swaybar. Pull dash and remove warning light bulbs. Problems solved
08 ctd--mini max--thuren 3" coils and shackles--4.56 gears and lockers in pw axles--some lights--afe intake system--bd super b turbo--Banks w/m Injection--Dynatrac Balljoints--bilstein 7100s--37" Cooper ST-Maxx--DOR Long arms--Carli track bar--Manual T-case swap--Full PW Under armor--PSC Hydro Assist
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby RAM4ROKS » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:28 pm

When it comes time to consider a new truck, I am hoping to keep my '12 as a dedicated trail rig and use the new truck as a DD/tow pig. If you can swing it 2005PW, I'd say that's the ultimate way to go!!!!

(full disclosure though, I don't plan on getting another Wagon, I am planning to get a 3500 4x4 crew cab shortbed SRW Tradesman, that way it's a little cheaper than a Wagon and it's the same outside dimensions as a Wagon. (that way I am used to driving the same general shape of truck all the time) I'd keep it stock so I am not tempted to ever wheel it since that's what my Wagon is for. As yet undecided between 6.4 gas vs 6.7 Cummins and Aisin or manual. (each setup has its pluses and its minuses, if it weren't for all the emissions crap, I would be only deciding between an manual or an Aisin behind a Cummins (since it would be towing the Wagon a fair bit) but, because of all the emissions crap on the diesels a VERY STRONG case is made for a 6.4!!!) I have quite a few years to decide that though. (many, many, many years, lol!))
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby Shaved Ice » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:45 pm

I had a '07 PW and now have a '17 PW. The new one sure has a lot of nice things already mentioned by others. While a new PW isn't $60K better than an '05, you have to keep in mind that the average vehicle goes to a junkyard at 12 years old. You can keep making repairs for much cheaper than a new one but at some point the lack of reliability is going to get to you or a repair is going to be more than the truck is worth. Everything eventually wears out and parts become harder and harder to find. I would sell the '05 privately and buy new if I were you, but would fully understand if someone recommended otherwise.

Edit: I opted for the Lifetime bumper-to-bumper warranty with my new one. This way, when things break after the standard warranty, it will only cost me $100 to get it fixed. If the repair costs more than the value of the truck, FCA buys the truck at Bluebook. Something to consider since you have several small repairs needed on your '05.
Last edited by Shaved Ice on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3rd Gen or 4.5 Gen

Postby nts007 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:15 pm

I wouldn't buy a vehicle that relied on a screen for the majority of its systems that costs $7500 part only to replace it when it fails. If it needs an update it shuts down the entire dash console. No thanks. All this new fangled tech is great now. But are you going to enjoy replacing it in 5-10 years at hugely inflated dealer only replacement?? We know for fact that all the new vehicles are meant to be repaired by remove and replace. And the manufactures are trying harder and harder to make sure no matter what you need them for parts. But if you plan on replacing every few years what does it matter.
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