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Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:10 pm

Guys,

I'm new around here and just purchased my first Power Wagon. It is a 2012 ST and I love the truck. Unfortunately, I bought it off of eBay and had to fly from Colorado to Texas to get it. While the truck is in perfect condition, guess what was missing from the front end...yep, the winch. The dealer didn't even know all Power Wagons had winches!! After threatening to walk, he assured he would send me money to make it right. He's been good about the money part, but now I've gotta figure out how to fix it. I know several of these questions might have already been answered here, I can't find a definitive answer in all my searches. The complete winch and mount are gone, so I don't even know where to start.

1. Other than factory, are there any other aftermarket options for a winch mount? Maybe a whole bumper? All the reasearch I've done on aftermarket bumpers, they are for non PW models (the bumper sticks out way past the grill).

2. If I do go with a factory mount, are there any other brackets needed to mount it? Or does it bolt directly to the frame?

3. With the factory mount, am I restricted to only a factory winch? I've heard that the M12000/M15000 are the closest to the Mopar spec. However, will a VR12000 or other model fit?

Thanks for the help guys. Being that this is my first PW, I'm not sure where to begin. Any help would be appreciated. Photos or ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Jameson
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:49 pm

Ideas? Anyone?
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby ramv » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:08 pm

Would guess only Warn Large frames would fit the mount. M12, M15, M16.5. The 16.5 might not fit the space, but should bolt to the mount. the VR12000 looks like the mid frame looking at the warn site.

You might just go aftermarket bumper as now would be the time.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby DamageWagon » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:34 pm

I would aggressively try to stick with the PW stock assembly. A few guys have bought from a guy in New Mexico. Looks like he hair goes onto dealer lots, steals the winches and then offers them for sale regularly lol. Nothing else can compare to the for and finish of the factory assembly, and if you need more than an M15000 to unstick yourself, you're doing it wrong. Also the M series from Warn are sweet winches and I would happily keep mine versus replacing it. The Zeons are cool but large. Find a factory winch and cradle and you can still do whatever you want to the front end. The more forward you move that winch the more it affects your suspension and the more it becomes your bumper.


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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby olyelr » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:46 am

A fella near me had a '16 that he pulled the factory winch out of and installed a 16.5S in it's place.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby Bill2014 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:10 am

olyelr wrote:A fella near me had a '16 that he pulled the factory winch out of and installed a 16.5S in it's place.

Sounds like overkill... especially when you can easily double your pulling force with a heavy duty snatch block. Our current winches already tax our trucks stock electrical system.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby ramv » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:04 am

16.5 has the same motor and more gears. Less taxing on the electrical system. If you are straining, a decent battery and perhaps a rewire to the winch are in order, I have winched a ton on my old second gen with the stock alternator and a single red top (now yellow top.) Two winches at the same time in a few cases. Just need to keep your foot on the gas and keep the volts up.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby Reloaderguy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:32 am

Assuming you have a factory winch mount you can use a 12k/15k/16.5k. You'll have to relclock the motor and planetaries as well as wire in a longer female remote plug. The free-spool lever is also going to be pretty short.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby RamGentry » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:43 am

Since it sounds like you're open to it I think the best bet is to go with a factory take off. You will see them periodically for sale on here or on the CL find thread. This way you know everything will match and and function as intended. Not saying you couldn't make something else work it just depends on how much work and $ you want to put into it.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:56 pm

DamageWagon wrote:I would aggressively try to stick with the PW stock assembly. A few guys have bought from a guy in New Mexico. Looks like he hair goes onto dealer lots, steals the winches and then offers them for sale regularly lol. Nothing else can compare to the for and finish of the factory assembly, and if you need more than an M15000 to unstick yourself, you're doing it wrong. Also the M series from Warn are sweet winches and I would happily keep mine versus replacing it. The Zeons are cool but large. Find a factory winch and cradle and you can still do whatever you want to the front end. The more forward you move that winch the more it affects your suspension and the more it becomes your bumper.


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Thanks for the insight. I really do want to stick with the OEM equipment, however I'm having a hard time finding anything. I have been searching craigslist all over the country and have found nothing. Does anybody have any ideas on where else to search? Both Craigslist and eBay seem to be a dead end.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby DamageWagon » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:05 pm

They tend to pop up on Craigslist. I would hit up thedriver21 (spelling?) and ask, he just got one.


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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:58 pm

I'll keep a look out on Craigslist. I guess it's just gonna take time. Anyone out there tried buying a factory Mount and using an aftermarket winch?
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby psmith » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:07 am

https://chattanooga.craigslist.org/pts/6035783293.html

Mount

I thought I saw a 4th gen winch somewhere in Ohio. Passed on it since I wanted an original 3rd gen one. I'll see if I can still find it.

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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:49 am

Thanks for the link. I contacted them. Hopefully I can get it shipped here to Colorado.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby TwinStick » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:46 am

GLW your search. Personally, the only thing I would definitely want that was stock, is the winch cradle. They did a real good job with that. As far as the stock winch, I could care less, especially if i was gonna keep the truck. I am NOT a fan of the LVI (low voltage interupt) or the TPS (thermal protection system/switch). Just 2 more ("we gotta save them from themselves") electronic nannies, that can leave you stranded if they fail/or kick in, when you need them the most. If someone is too foolish to leave the truck running when winching & kills the battery, or too foolish to not realize it is getting really hot & needs a break, then I guess they deserve to be stranded. But many times, those 2 systems have kicked in when there was no reason to & left people stranded. Maybe not so much of an issue on the current crop/Generation Of Power Wagons, IDK for sure. It was on the 3rd Gens. Just something to think about if you can find the mount, but not a winch. A Warn M15000 or the 16.5 would be a fine alternative.
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:03 pm

TwinStick wrote:GLW your search. Personally, the only thing I would definitely want that was stock, is the winch cradle. They did a real good job with that. As far as the stock winch, I could care less, especially if i was gonna keep the truck. I am NOT a fan of the LVI (low voltage interupt) or the TPS (thermal protection system/switch). Just 2 more ("we gotta save them from themselves") electronic nannies, that can leave you stranded if they fail/or kick in, when you need them the most. If someone is too foolish to leave the truck running when winching & kills the battery, or too foolish to not realize it is getting really hot & needs a break, then I guess they deserve to be stranded. But many times, those 2 systems have kicked in when there was no reason to & left people stranded. Maybe not so much of an issue on the current crop/Generation Of Power Wagons, IDK for sure. It was on the 3rd Gens. Just something to think about if you can find the mount, but not a winch. A Warn M15000 or the 16.5 would be a fine alternative.



Thanks for the info. Was thinking exactly the same thing. It seems that the only part that is truely unique is the mounting cradle. I just wonder if other winch models will mount to it. Do winches come with a "standard" mounting plate? I was planing on going with a Warn. However, I might not be able to find the factory one. I'm still looking if anyone has my leads. Thanks
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby Colibri » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:36 pm

Most every winch is standard 4x10" mounting pattern if memory serves
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby cruz » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:30 pm

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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby TwinStick » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:31 pm

Check your dealer, it might not be that bad of a price. http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/pro ... 221AF.html $359.00 Says it will fit 2010-2013's.
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby olyelr » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:56 pm

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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby California_RAM » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:44 pm

If the dealer gave you cash....then he did you a huge favor. You can now purchase any aftermarket winch bumber for a regular Ram 2500 (tons more choices than the narrow PW selection). Now, after that you can purchase any winch of your chosing. That dealer did you a favor by pulling you out of the narrow PW market. You can purchase a nicer bumper, and a normal aftermarket winch instead of an obscure PW OEM winch that even the Warn guys aren't familiar with when you call them for help. Bottom-line you get to upgrade both.
2015 RAM Tradesman PW: White Knuckle Sliders, FAB FOURS premium bumpers front and rear, Magnaflow #19200 exhaust. K&N cold air intake.
Suspension: AEV 3" lift w/ OEM 2500 springs.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby nts007 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:22 pm

There is nothing wrong with the pw winch. Whatever warn service people you talked to are severely misinformed. When I did a winch rebuild they were extremely helpful with parts and getting them to me. They knew all about the wagon winch back in 07. Maybe they got a lot dumber. And why wouldn't you want to have the pw cradle and winch. The aftermarket bumper selection is horrible. All the ugly chin bumpers
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby votedave » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:04 pm

California_RAM wrote:If the dealer gave you cash....then he did you a huge favor. You can now purchase any aftermarket winch bumber for a regular Ram 2500 (tons more choices than the narrow PW selection). Now, after that you can purchase any winch of your chosing. That dealer did you a favor by pulling you out of the narrow PW market. You can purchase a nicer bumper, and a normal aftermarket winch instead of an obscure PW OEM winch that even the Warn guys aren't familiar with when you call them for help. Bottom-line you get to upgrade both.



Yea, he did give me cash. So you're right, I guess I could do whatever I want as far as aftermarket goes. I just haven't found any aftermarket bumpers I like. They all stick way out in front of the grill. I like the clean hidden look of the original PW setup. Therefore, if I can find one, I'd rather use the OEM winch mount, then possibly go with an aftermarket winch. So long as it'll fit.
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby TwinStick » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:17 pm

For $359.00, I'd buy the winch cradle from a dealer. I would also put the 16.5 winch in it, even if it had to be re-clocked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlcjK8nt3t8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6OP_cY4yL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzTIV7Hu1jc

FYI, our stock rollers are: Horizontal ones are 12 1/8" long. Vertical ones are 3" long. At least on a 3rd Gen.
2008 Red QC PW G56. No lift yet, stock size tires. It pulls a 2016 Starcraft AR One Extreme, 3500 lbs.
Load Pro 35 helper springs. 2015 A.R.E. MX Series custom cap. PCP front diff cover protector. Mag-Hytec 6 qt rear diff cover. K&N replacement air filter only. Dual grounded throttle body. Winch TPC bypass. Fab Four rear bumper. DURA BAK lined rocker protection. And a bunch of new front end stuff.

G-56 Gear ratios: 1st) 6.29:1 2nd) 3.48:1 3rd) 2.10:1 4th) 1.38:1 5th) 1.0:1 6th) 0.79:1 Rev 6.29:1 --- = 78.01613:1 Crawl Ratio
-------------------------5.94:1--------3.28:1-------1.98:1-------1.31:1-------1.0:1-------0.74:1-----5.42:1 ---- = 73.675:1
545RFE----------------3.0:1---------1.67:1--------1.0:1--------0.75:1-------0.67:1------------------3.0:1 -------=37.21:1

2013+ 32.47 crawl ratio...............Can you see the trend ??????????????
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Re: Winch Replacement, possibly aftermarket? Please Help!!

Postby Reloaderguy » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:08 pm

TwinStick wrote:For $359.00, I'd buy the winch cradle from a dealer. I would also put the 16.5 winch in it, even if it had to be re-clocked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlcjK8nt3t8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6OP_cY4yL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzTIV7Hu1jc

FYI, our stock rollers are: Horizontal ones are 12 1/8" long. Vertical ones are 3" long. At least on a 3rd Gen.


What he said, you have to clock the motor side too. Also, a Zenon won't fit in the OE cradle.

Follow AEV's clocking procedures in reverse: http://www.aev-conversions.com/isheets/ ... nWinch.pdf
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