Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:09 pm

Exactly. I understand that timbrens work well for what they are and certainly are easier to operate, but they just dont compare to bags in any scenario except simplicity.

One thing I am gonna spring for in the near future is the onboard air setup with in cab controls. That would just be awesome. Is it needed? Well heck no... but neither are power windows and door locks, but they sure are nice to have.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by NickTF » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:59 am

TankerZak wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:34 pm
The bags go to 100 psi and they are taller than the Timbrens i took off. Airbags are just flat out better. Truck rides better empty, rides better loaded, and shouldn't sag as much because they are taller. And you get full articulation when bags are empty. It's really a no brainer. I should have never done Timbrens. I gave mine to DamageWagon. Hope it works for him offsetting the weight of his camper. But for someone who runs unloaded then tows heavy. Airbags. Especially if you already air up and down anyway. I run my tires at 45 psi front / 40 psi rear. So throwing air in and removing from the bags isn't a big deal. I already have the compressor out.
My ride empty has not changed with the timbrens, but I installed them without the included spacer. If you install them with the spacer there would be contact nearly all the time with the timbrens and the axle pads so if this is how anyone installed them empty ride will most definitely suffer. Now, if I was going offroad alot more than I do even with the way my timbrens are installed empty ride would suffer. This is with the oem springs which are fairly stiff for an empty bed with no tongue weight. If you have Thuren's rear springs which are far softer and better riding from my understanding the timbrens may be more noticeable.

At the time the Timbrens were around a third of the price of air bags and a much easier/quicker install. They were always intended to be a band-aid for me given my focus was the boat and getting it ready for full time activity. Now, I'll start to look back at the air bags which were my end goal all along. Glad to hear that they will fight sag better than the timbrens. I'm really not interested in going down the road with the boat in tow with the ass looking like it's dragging. Don't like the way that looks and don't like the way that handles. Non issue with timbrens and an oem suspended truck but would be an issue with my timbrens and raising the front to near level.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:42 pm

Timbrens give you a shock when they do contact. So its jarring if you hit a bump. Normally they are fine but lock your jaw if you go over railroad tracks... i didn't do the onboard air because i have to air up my tires anyway to 60/65 to tow from 45/40. I have a air compressor in my garage and a 12v one that runs off my battery in the truck. My spare tire is also a 35 and at 20psi. So an onboard air compressor tied to the bags only solved one small issue.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Daystar cradles installed. Lined up just perfect. We did have to disconnect the shock to get enough space to drill and tap the bump pad. Works great.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:48 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm
Daystar cradles installed. Lined up just perfect. We did have to disconnect the shock to get enough space to drill and tap the bump pad. Works great.


Did that take care of the noise you were hearing?
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:28 am

olyelr wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:48 pm
TankerZak wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm
Daystar cradles installed. Lined up just perfect. We did have to disconnect the shock to get enough space to drill and tap the bump pad. Works great.


Did that take care of the noise you were hearing?
Yeah, all good. Everything is perfect and no spacer.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:18 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:28 am

Yeah, all good. Everything is perfect and no spacer.
Did you happen do any measuring to confirm for sure? The way i noticed mine articulating the other day, it didnt look like the rear wheels were stuffing up in the wheel wells as high as normal. I just dont want to remove the spacer, and then see my shocks blow from bottoming out before the airbag bumpstop is compressed. I have occasionally hit the rear bumps in the past hahahah.

Since obviously I cant see inside the bags to actually measure the height of the bumpstop, my plan is to remove the bottom bolt in the rear shocks, remove the springs and then set the truck down on the bumpstops... then try to bolt the shocks back up :D
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:44 pm

Welp, since photobucket is a greedy fawking joke now, I uploaded the images to a different site and added them back in to my original post.
Last edited by olyelr on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:45 pm

What a shitshow that was.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:42 pm

You can feel and measure the jounce in the bag if you push hard enough. I measured what hardware came off and what went on. It was like a 1/4 inch difference.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:16 pm

Far from scientific, but judging by these two photos, the air bags with spacers definitely hinder rear articulation...

Obviously, the pic with snow on the ground is the one with bags/spacers (grass pic was with no bags). The passenger side rear tire was off the ground, so I would have to imagine the drivers side was fully stuffed. Both pics are pretty much at the same place on the same trail. I will be doing a more "accurate" calculation, but as of right now I am with TankerZak... the factory spacers are not needed with these bags (5000 Ultimate with the interior bumpstop).

Image

Image
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:33 am

Please follow up when you do the more accurate calculation. I think my measurements are within 1/4 (mostly because i cant touch the internal jounce and see how much give it has) of an inch but would love a second opinion. Actually 3rd opinion as DamageWagon helped on the install. And by help i mean he did most of it...

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:25 am

TankerZak wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:33 am
Please follow up when you do the more accurate calculation. I think my measurements are within 1/4 (mostly because i cant touch the internal jounce and see how much give it has) of an inch but would love a second opinion. Actually 3rd opinion as DamageWagon helped on the install. And by help i mean he did most of it...


:lol:

Yea I will certainly update this thread when I come up with a better answer.


If I add the wireless one compressor setup, can I just tee into the current air lines I have and be done? And leave the valves by the back bumper? Seems like it would work to me.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:24 pm

I'd think so. Maybe just call Airlift and ask.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:21 pm

Okay, I was crawling around under my truck this evening for the fun of it when I realized the upper spring mounts for my rear coil springs were way off center... to the point one of the springs was rubbing on the side of the frame bracket :roll: I figured this must have occurred 8 months ago when the air bags were installed... guess Im gonna have to fire the no good sunuvabetch who put them on :lol:

So, to get the coil isolators back in place requires removing the shocks and sway bar again... so I figured if I was going to go that far, I might as well take it a few more steps and remove the factory PW bump-stop spacers to do some measuring without them. Here is what I found...

Using these bags without the PW bump-stop spacer is completely fine in regards to the factory shock length. There is still roughly 3" of compression available in the shocks once the bags are completely compressed (3" is a guess, it might be a bit more or less... it is difficult to compress the shock and hold them up with one hand while trying to measure).

One thing that crossed my mind that I didnt really think of... when the truck is at ride height and there is no air pressure in the bags, once they get close to fully compressed they have nearly 20PSI in them. I then bled that air out and continued compressing the bags a little more, but they didnt gain that much more compression...

Furthermore, from my somewhat accurate rough calculations, using these bags with the Daystar cradles and no PW bump-stop spacers, there is still a loss of roughly 1" of compression from the factory set-up. When the bags were completely compressed, I held the factory bump-stop in place and there was nearly 2" of room to the axle pad (that was without the PW bump-stop spacer, so subtract an inch). Also, that is without the factory bumpstop being compressed. I think removing the Daystar cradles may get it pretty close to the factory compression area, as they are fairly thick.




Some pics...




Again, did it laying the floor, accept in the garage this time...


Image




Heres where the damn upper coil isolators were riding for the last 8 months :doh:


Image


Image




Here is the bags completely compressed...


Image




With them fully compressed, there is still a lot of compression available in the factory shocks...


Image




With them fully compressed, the factory bump-stops are around 2" away from the axle pad (without factoring in the 1" PW spacer)...


Image
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:57 pm

Uh... factory bump stop requires the spacer. Wouldnt that picture make more sense if you were holding factory bump stop and spacer together vs the airbag setup? I think if you factor that in it comes much closer to stock compression. I might be missing something...

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:07 am

TankerZak wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:57 pm
Uh... factory bump stop requires the spacer. Wouldnt that picture make more sense if you were holding factory bump stop and spacer together vs the airbag setup? I think if you factor that in it comes much closer to stock compression. I might be missing something...

Exactly. Thats why i guessed about an inch. The picture with the bumpstop without the spacer is about 2” away from the axle pad. The spacer is 1” thick. So it would be roughly an inch away with the spacer still.

Also, the factory bumpstop pad was not compressed either.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:53 am

I gotcha. I'm not sure that factory bump stop really compresses. Its hard as a rock. Maybe 10% give under load? Either way i think the travel loss is fairly minimal overall. Thanks for documenting all that!!

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 am

Also, do you think that upper coil isolater could get misaligned if you didn't touch the sway bar during install? We found we only needed to detach the end of the shock for enough space for the drill to tap the bump stop pad. But now I'm wondering if mine could be the same way...

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by Colibri » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:16 pm

The factory bump stop is hard and harsh, but under the right circumstances it will compress much farther than you’d think. If you get air at speed on stock suspension it’ll get almost metal to metal with the bumpstop cup and strike pad

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:10 pm

TankerZak wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:53 am
I gotcha. I'm not sure that factory bump stop really compresses. Its hard as a rock. Maybe 10% give under load? Either way i think the travel loss is fairly minimal overall. Thanks for documenting all that!!
Yeah, the minor loss in compression travel, to me, is far outweighed by the large improvement in towing, as I spend more time towing than I do articulating heavily off road.

TankerZak wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 am
Also, do you think that upper coil isolater could get misaligned if you didn't touch the sway bar during install? We found we only needed to detach the end of the shock for enough space for the drill to tap the bump stop pad. But now I'm wondering if mine could be the same way...
Ha, I checked into this while I was tearing everything apart. In order for the springs to be loose enough for the upper isolators to get out of place, the sway bar has to be disconnected. The shocks alone will not allow the springs to be loose enough to just move over on their own.

Oh yeah, that reminds me. For guys that are running longer shocks (like Thuren white bodies or Kings etc.), I am pretty sure longer sway bar links will be needed. Otherwise, you will risk the possibility of the sway bar actually flipping back the opposite way (when the axle is fully extended, and then pushed back up into place), which would not be good.
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by TankerZak » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:04 pm

Well, great work everyone. I feel like we really nailed this down solid. I'm very comfortable with my install and its performing well. As a side note you should install the DOR steering brace. Really helped my steering especially under load while towing. Tightened it up.

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:48 am

TankerZak wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:04 pm
Well, great work everyone. I feel like we really nailed this down solid. I'm very comfortable with my install and its performing well. As a side note you should install the DOR steering brace. Really helped my steering especially under load while towing. Tightened it up.

Thanks, I’ve been eye balling it 8-)
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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by NickTF » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:54 am

olyelr wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:36 am
NickTF wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:00 am
If filling the air bags to near max psi, how little drop have you been able to achieve with a heavy load (either tongue weight or payload)? With my timbrens, the truck still sags a good bit loaded (7500lb boat and trailer) but with factory suspension not enough to where the rear isn't a bit higher than the front. I'd like to level my truck at some point and with the timbrens i'd either need to use the supplied 3/4" spacer which means I'd have very little rear articulation or replace them with airbags assuming they'd do what I need to keep the truck level with the boat on the back of it. Taking timbrens on and off is not an option i'd consider.
The heaviest tongue load I have hauled is probably my buddy's Jeep (no WD hitch) along with roughly 600# of gear in the back of the bed. Not really sure what the overall tongue load was, but I only had 30# in the bags and I was sitting level (I have a 1.5" coil spacer up front). The bags go to 100# if I remember correctly.
So, now that you've remove the spacers, are you still able to keep the truck level with your raised front with a heavy payload/tongue weight?

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Re: Airlifter 5000 Ultimate airbags w/ Daystar cradles '14+

Post by olyelr » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:43 am

NickTF wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:54 am


So, now that you've remove the spacers, are you still able to keep the truck level with your raised front with a heavy payload/tongue weight?

I actually have not even towed or put air in the bags yet since I removed the spacers. Seeing how I could raise the back up well above the level mark before, I am positive it will be fine. Just no first hand experience yet.
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