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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby MikeKey » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:21 am

The one I just bought.

Image

You know you want one.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Hammerballs » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:42 am

MikeKey, what brand is that? I really like the Road Armor one I posted the pic of in my post if it would work. I like the full brush guard but sleek lines of the rest of the bumper.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:02 am

My short list is Mercenary and TR. Lighting options are somewhat relevant. The Miss Piggy is $1K more than the TR.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby TheDirtRoad » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:13 am

MikeKey wrote:The one I just bought.

Image

You know you want one.


Yes, I do want one ! And I will be getting one in a couple months. I am going to Line-X mine.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Rodeoflyer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:57 am

Mercenary's are nice. I recommended that one to a guy on utube but he eventually just line-x'd his stock bumper also on my recommendation. I may line-x the bumpers and rockers on my truck. Can't beat the durability.

I just want to retain my parksensors and that has been a hindrance on locating an aftermarket. I do love my parksensors. I trust them so much that I backed into my buddies front bumper after attaching a Viking Solutions L-E-Vator attachment that I neglected to adjust distance.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby MikeKey » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Hammerballs wrote:MikeKey, what brand is that? I really like the Road Armor one I posted the pic of in my post if it would work. I like the full brush guard but sleek lines of the rest of the bumper.


Made by a forum member here:
http://www.kinzeroffroad.com

Forum member: hunterman6
I believe myself and TheDirtRoad (think he's planning to order soon) might be the first to review. He's a mechanical engineer and designer. So I'm placing my faith in him right now. The problem I have with all the other bumpers, is they're all designed for the diesel trucks. They stick out to damn far for me. I liked that Kye solved this problem by designing a PW specific bumper. And he spent time matching the front lines on the corners. I also have been wanting a high clearance bumper.

One of the things I repeatedly encountered in Moab was if the step was too high, getting the front tire onto it to make traction was difficult. Granted I had the stock 33's at the time.

We'll see when Kinzer delivers. I'll do my own review, lots of photos, video walk around.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:08 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Hammerballs wrote:MikeKey, what brand is that? I really like the Road Armor one I posted the pic of in my post if it would work. I like the full brush guard but sleek lines of the rest of the bumper.


Made by a forum member here:
http://www.kinzeroffroad.com

Forum member: hunterman6
I believe myself and TheDirtRoad (think he's planning to order soon) might be the first to review. He's a mechanical engineer and designer. So I'm placing my faith in him right now. The problem I have with all the other bumpers, is they're all designed for the diesel trucks. They stick out to damn far for me. I liked that Kye solved this problem by designing a PW specific bumper. And he spent time matching the front lines on the corners. I also have been wanting a high clearance bumper.

One of the things I repeatedly encountered in Moab was if the step was too high, getting the front tire onto it to make traction was difficult. Granted I had the stock 33's at the time.

We'll see when Kinzer delivers. I'll do my own review, lots of photos, video walk around.


I've been burned being the guinea pig so unless there is a production model and reviews I'm out. I've made an exception for Thuren on suspension because Don's reputation and history is significant and I know where he lives. Thuren and TR are local to me.

I'll be interested in the Kinzer once there is some history. I'd like to see 4" and 6" ports for lights if possible. Approach angles are less of a concern for me but not completely unimportant. I'm glad to see someone is going to buy the Kinzer and do a review.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Hammerballs » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:52 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Hammerballs wrote:MikeKey, what brand is that? I really like the Road Armor one I posted the pic of in my post if it would work. I like the full brush guard but sleek lines of the rest of the bumper.


Made by a forum member here:
http://www.kinzeroffroad.com

Forum member: hunterman6
I believe myself and TheDirtRoad (think he's planning to order soon) might be the first to review. He's a mechanical engineer and designer. So I'm placing my faith in him right now. The problem I have with all the other bumpers, is they're all designed for the diesel trucks. They stick out to damn far for me. I liked that Kye solved this problem by designing a PW specific bumper. And he spent time matching the front lines on the corners. I also have been wanting a high clearance bumper.

One of the things I repeatedly encountered in Moab was if the step was too high, getting the front tire onto it to make traction was difficult. Granted I had the stock 33's at the time.

We'll see when Kinzer delivers. I'll do my own review, lots of photos, video walk around.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your review. I personally prefer a stout brush guard design but I also like the low profile aspect that doesn't stick out. I'm assuming the stock winch location remains? That is why I was wondering if one of these non-winch low profile bumpers with the light bar opening might work. Looking at our winch and bumper, the roller fairleads barely stick out beyond the plane of the grill. Seems like on of those bumpers might work if the light bar slot is oriented at the right level vertically.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:45 pm

Here is another custom bumper manufacturer making a Power Wagon specific bumper.

http://www.775fabrication.com/
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Bill2014 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:21 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:Here is another custom bumper manufacturer making a Power Wagon specific bumper.

http://www.775fabrication.com/


MUST use synthetic winch line and Hawse fairlead... on the 4th gen Power Wagon
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby MikeKey » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:49 pm

Not a terrible bumper. But I am not a fan of companies etching their name into the bumper. I bought the bumper, but I didn't sign up to be an advertisement forever. :popcorn:
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby TheDirtRoad » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:42 pm

MikeKey wrote:Not a terrible bumper. But I am not a fan of companies etching their name into the bumper. I bought the bumper, but I didn't sign up to be an advertisement forever. :popcorn:


bumper.PNG


Mikekey I agree with you on companies etching the bumper . Did you notice that Kye's new design is etched in the center? I asked Kye if he could leave it off mine but he said it was already there . It should be getting pretty close to you receiving yours I still have a few weeks to go than I am taking it to Line-X. I do like Kinzer design a lot better than 775fabrication.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:48 pm

Bill2014 wrote:
Reloaderguy wrote:Here is another custom bumper manufacturer making a Power Wagon specific bumper.

http://www.775fabrication.com/


MUST use synthetic winch line and Hawse fairlead... on the 4th gen Power Wagon


They use a second fairlead, that is what Don was discussing too. I have a synthetic line so it's not a problem. If I can avoid moving the winch or using a second fairlead I will. I'd like room for auxiliary lights if possible.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby DamageWagon » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:31 pm

The Kinzer looks solid. The 775 looks like one of the many bro bumpers I see in California. And forcing me to use synthetic line sounds like a bad idea. I wonder why that is actually, I'm assuming they make the vertical opening too small for a roller fairlead.


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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:08 pm

DamageWagon wrote:The Kinzer looks solid. The 775 looks like one of the many bro bumpers I see in California. And forcing me to use synthetic line sounds like a bad idea. I wonder why that is actually, I'm assuming they make the vertical opening too small for a roller fairlead.


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You have to use synthetic because 775 is adding a second fairlead (haus) to the front of the bumper. It isn't so much the design of the bumper as it is the aluminum haus fairlead. It is no different than any of the other aftermarket "Power Wagon" bumpers that add a second fairlead if you add an aluminum haus. The Kinzer bumper is the first I've seen that actually clearances around the factory winch mount.

I sent Kye an email asking if he can delete the logo and add park sense sensors.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby DamageWagon » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:53 pm

You don't have to use synthetic with a second fairlead. That makes zero sense. It's the same exact load on the bumper. I have a Ranch Hand that uses a roller fairlead for steel line and it sticks out more than any other bumper out there.


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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby olyelr » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:26 pm

DamageWagon wrote:You don't have to use synthetic with a second fairlead. That makes zero sense. It's the same exact load on the bumper. I have a Ranch Hand that uses a roller fairlead for steel line and it sticks out more than any other bumper out there.


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You do when the bumper only comes with an aluminum haus fairlead (unless you fab in a roller fairlead).
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Rodeoflyer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:30 pm

If you can swap the aluminum fairlead for a steel hawse style it will be compatible with steel cable.

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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:32 pm

You do with an aluminum haus fairlead bolted inside the bumper.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby DamageWagon » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:14 pm

I just have a strong opinion against a bumper that forces me to run synthetic but I know that synthetic line is the popular thing now. All the bros are running it [emoji51]. I wouldn't buy a production item in this case just to know I have to hack fab it to work for me. Hawse fairleads are cool, synthetic is cool, but based off all the reviews from people who actually use their winches on this site I wouldn't touch a synthetic line on my winch.


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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Reloaderguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:51 pm

I haven't broken a single synthetic line in the mall parking lot.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby adeluca73 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:23 pm

DamageWagon wrote:I just have a strong opinion against a bumper that forces me to run synthetic but I know that synthetic line is the popular thing now. All the bros are running it [emoji51]. I wouldn't buy a production item in this case just to know I have to hack fab it to work for me. Hawse fairleads are cool, synthetic is cool, but based off all the reviews from people who actually use their winches on this site I wouldn't touch a synthetic line on my winch.

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That's a fairly strongly impassioned position. Just curious if you have any substantive reasons why you favor stock steel lines & are so strenuolously esconsced against synthetic line? Is it purely anecdotal lore passed among friends or other interweb reviews or are there mechanics based reasons? I don't have a dog in this either way--it's nothing more than a tool to me, best for the job is my criterion. I've batted around getting 100' 7/16" fire line for a good while, I like that its stronger than our steel, won't decapitate someone if it breaks, and will unload 40lbs from the leading edge. Other than pinches and abrasion breaks, and the cost, what's the downside? CactusRed is the Godfather of PW winching on this site, has posted an sticky tutorial section dedicated to just winching, & he swears by AmSteel Blue synthetic line, I'm curious to hear your take.
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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby DamageWagon » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:20 am

My only bias is based on the experiences described by others on this site. Knowing that synthetic line degrades from the exact things I expect line to experience - sunlight, internal abrasion from dirt, chemicals and solvents I am constantly using on the front end - why would I pay a lot of money to replace good steel line with the only benefit of synthetic being that the line itself doesn't recoil in such an extreme way of it breaks. Floats on water? Selling point but realistically useless I think. Lightweight? My front axle came in at 4800lbs on the weigh scale. I'm not worried about 20. High cost? Why not buy more recovery gear... Or gas.

These are just my thoughts. Please rebuttal [emoji2] I have not broken either steel or synthetic lines enough to have a personal opinion on the only factor I consider to have any importance. Other people on here have, and those people seem to swear by steel. Rusty if you could chime in.


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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby FirerescuePW » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:54 am

Having been through some winch training for fire/rescue recently, along with practical experience off-roading, I feel comfortable offering some opinions and observations. In my world, the rope needs to be steel. Synthetic would be great on something like the Warn Pullzall portable for weight savings, but for a mounted winch I like steel. Abrasion resistance is a big factor, as is resistance to UV degradation, road dirt, solvents, chemicals, broken glass, etc. When we deploy a piece of equipment, we can't risk failure due to the Oh Shit moment when the rope drags across a rock and you can't do anything about it.

I haven't researched this, but is it true that some synthetic manufacturers want you to replace the rope every 3 years?

I was somewhat naive, thinking that our 12,000lb winches were good for 12,000lbs. As it turns out, the winch manufacturers don't build a real world safety factor into their ratings. The hardware manufacturers do, so their numbers look low in comparison. If you operate within a 4:1 safety factor, they are really only good for a 3000lb pull. Not to say only a 3000lb load, but the force measured with a dyno in line. In comparison, OSHA requires a 10:1 safety factor for hoisting hardware.

You can rig 2 or 3:1and get much more pulling force without going over a measured 3000lb. Operating at a lower force makes the line less likely to break because you have provided the safety factor, and makes it behave differently if it does. Not to say there isn't danger, but it is reduced considerably if YOU maintain a safety factor when rigging your pull.

I eagerly await more educated responses!

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Re: What is your favorite 4th Gen bumper?

Postby Hammerballs » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:28 am

FirerescuePW wrote:Having been through some winch training for fire/rescue recently, along with practical experience off-roading, I feel comfortable offering some opinions and observations. In my world, the rope needs to be steel. Synthetic would be great on something like the Warn Pullzall portable for weight savings, but for a mounted winch I like steel. Abrasion resistance is a big factor, as is resistance to UV degradation, road dirt, solvents, chemicals, broken glass, etc. When we deploy a piece of equipment, we can't risk failure due to the Oh Shit moment when the rope drags across a rock and you can't do anything about it.

I haven't researched this, but is it true that some synthetic manufacturers want you to replace the rope every 3 years?

I was somewhat naive, thinking that our 12,000lb winches were good for 12,000lbs. As it turns out, the winch manufacturers don't build a real world safety factor into their ratings. The hardware manufacturers do, so their numbers look low in comparison. If you operate within a 4:1 safety factor, they are really only good for a 3000lb pull. Not to say only a 3000lb load, but the force measured with a dyno in line. In comparison, OSHA requires a 10:1 safety factor for hoisting hardware.

You can rig 2 or 3:1and get much more pulling force without going over a measured 3000lb. Operating at a lower force makes the line less likely to break because you have provided the safety factor, and makes it behave differently if it does. Not to say there isn't danger, but it is reduced considerably if YOU maintain a safety factor when rigging your pull.

I eagerly await more educated responses!

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Not sure if you are aware but our 12000 lb winch is actually the Warn 15,000lb winch from my understanding. Chrysler just down rated it for liability reasons. It comes with the 7/16th steel cable and all internals are a match to the Warn M15000 as I understand it. So at least a little more safety factor there.

Back to the bumpers, I really like Kye's design. I just want to add a nice looking brush guard to give the grill a little protection. Kye said he could send me the bumper raw and I could have a local fabricator work up a nice brush guard. I too want to be able to integrate my front sensors into it. From the front it looks like it might be possible to have the fabricator drill some holes for the sensors in adequate locations but I don't know from the backside if that would work. I use those sensors to get as close to my garage as possible so I don't hang out over the sidewalk so far.
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