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moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck????????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:19 pm

So, on a 2013 and older, can the front axle be moved forward 1.5" like AEV does for the newer rigs? I'd like to run 40s when it's time for new tires!!! I know there's lots more to be done but... this is the main head scratching hurdle! Just got done reading about how the axle is moved forward 1.5" with AEV's setup to run 40s- I LOVE the AEV flares but, I am a cheapskate so... hacking to fit is more likely for my truck, LOL!
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby Colibri » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:14 pm

It depends how dedicated and talented an individual you are or what you're willing to spend. .5" yes easily, 1.5" is going to take some major doing. Relocating the steering gear and trackbar further forward as well as shock and spring mounts or switching to coilovers. There's just not as much fudge room as on the later radius arm trucks. Also full bump may not be achievable because of interference with the diff and oil pan. You may loose up travel.

I have seen someone fit 40's on a 3" truck with short arms. It took fairly aggressive trimming of the front lower cab and fender. If you switch over to a long arm on 3" lift you won't have to trim as drastically but you'll still be cutting into the cab outer structure. To be clear, you won't be left with flintstone holes in the floorboards, just cutting of the outer structure.

05pwrockcrawler has 40's on a 6" lift and thuren long arms and I don't believe he had to mess with cutting the cab at all, only a little fender clearancing

If you go for it please post pics :rockon: :rockon:
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RustyPW » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:35 pm

I thought about doing something like this to my 3G. Would have to move the steering box, the frame mount for the track bar, upper spring mounts, upper shock mounts, sway bar, axle stops, forward. Different front bumper. It's doable. Just how much time and money you want to put into it.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby olyelr » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:29 am

Not that its a big difference, but I am pretty sure the AEV kit only moves the axle forward 1". Anymore than that and major changes would be needed, I am sure. They already had to do some things with their kit to make 1" work.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:25 pm

olyelr wrote:Not that its a big difference, but I am pretty sure the AEV kit only moves the axle forward 1". Anymore than that and major changes would be needed, I am sure. They already had to do some things with their kit to make 1" work.


From their (AEV's) forum, they move the axle forward 1.5". Really wish the front axle was as forwardly mobile on the four link trucks as the radius arm trucks, bummer. Mine looks too far back to me, even with my .5" longer Carli arms. Since it can't go forward, I guess it'll just mean more fender cutting at the back edge when the time comes to go 40s! :doh:
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby olyelr » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:49 pm

RAM4ROKS wrote:
From their (AEV's) forum, they move the axle forward 1.5". Really wish the front axle was as forwardly mobile on the four link trucks as the radius arm trucks, bummer. Mine looks too far back to me, even with my .5" longer Carli arms. Since it can't go forward, I guess it'll just mean more fender cutting at the back edge when the time comes to go 40s! :doh:


Yes, correct. My bad. It's the 37" kit that moves it 1". 40" kit is more, for more tire clearance.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:24 pm

Just thinking...
What about modifying the existing coil towers to run coilovers that are mounted 1.5" forward, running custom long arms, moving the trackbar's frame mount forward 1.5", and running a somewhat shorter pitman arm??? (yes, I would lose some steering angle but, I cannot use all my steering angle anyway since the 37's rub my control arms)
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:26 pm

Maybe a really dumb question but.... how different is the new front end???? What about just going to the new setup??? What actually changed? (obviously the arms (and their mounts) but, what else??? What are the differences that make the new front end more forgiving of shifting the axle forward???
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby Reloaderguy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:28 pm

RAM4ROKS wrote:Maybe a really dumb question but.... how different is the new front end???? What about just going to the new setup??? What actually changed? (obviously the arms (and their mounts) but, what else??? What are the differences that make the new front end more forgiving of shifting the axle forward???


It would be easier to list what didn't change...I think the ring/pinion, diff, and upper ball joints are the same.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:03 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
RAM4ROKS wrote:Maybe a really dumb question but.... how different is the new front end???? What about just going to the new setup??? What actually changed? (obviously the arms (and their mounts) but, what else??? What are the differences that make the new front end more forgiving of shifting the axle forward???


It would be easier to list what didn't change...I think the ring/pinion, diff, and upper ball joints are the same.


Not to beat a dead horse but....
Is the steering box the same? Is its position the same?
What about the actual frame mounts of the coil springs?

What I am getting at is-
What would prevent me from converting to a radius arm style setup (using Carli radius arms like the Diesel Power Products rig) with custom mounts on the frame and the spring mounts on the axle torched off and custom made 1.5" rearward on the axle to allow the frame mounts to stay in the same spot but the axle to be 1.5" forward? Then go with a custom frame trackbar mount, pitman arm, draglink, and (if needed) tie rod. Seems like as long as I keep my shock diameter at a sane size, the shift of the axle as it goes through the arc of its travel would have minimal effect on the shock and spring with the axle only 1.5" displaced. (I mean think about the desert rigs that run coilovers and shocks on the arms themselves, far displaced from the axle's arm mounts, granted I'd be running coils but, I will be keeping my limiting straps so, I would think 1.5" should be of little consequence)

I really would like to push the axle forward even with my 37s.
1) would allow me to run some wheels with less backspacing to get the tires off my control arms when turning without having to worry about clearance at the rear off the wheelwell.
2) would look better- to me my front axle looks too far back in the wheelwell
3) would put me one step closer to being able to fit 40s!
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:16 pm

So, I have been thinking that when I get an axle truss, I might would want to get a new front axle housing (so as not to have so much down time) so, what about getting a 2014+ housing and trussing it, then I could run AEV's lower coil mounts for the 37->40 kit. (assuming they's sell them separately.

Assuming the steering box and its location on the frame are the same for the 2014+ as the earlier rigs, and the coil mounts (frame side) are the same, what about just converting to a 2014 setup alltogether, doing a mix of Carli and AEV like the DPP truck??? (or am I assuming to much thinking that so much would be the same between the years????)

Obviously the 2014+ Wagons have the CAD but, can you run earlier axle shafts to eliminate it? if my locker and all other parts can fit within the 2014+ housing, it really wouldn't be a bad way to go, in lieu of a new earlier axle for trussing. (since their costs are similar) That way I wouldn't even have to change anything on the front axle to convert to the later model setup.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby nts007 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:11 pm

I'll let you in on a secret. Something I've been hoping to do. Moving he axle forward just over an inch is no big issue for most of the steering since I plan on hydro. The secret is ....shhhh.... Coil overs

It would cost far less to do arms and coilovers then to go through the horrible and expensive transformation your thinking. In my opinion anyway
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:14 pm

You're going full hydro??? That's awesome! That makes things a TON easier!!!! But, my Wagon sees way too much street/highway time for that to be an option for me. So, going full hydro, are you still going to run a trackbar or are you going to triangulated four link and ditch the track bar?
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby nts007 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:04 pm

RAM4ROKS wrote:You're going full hydro??? That's awesome! That makes things a TON easier!!!! But, my Wagon sees way too much street/highway time for that to be an option for me. So, going full hydro, are you still going to run a trackbar or are you going to triangulated four link and ditch the track bar?


Not 100% sure on the front end. The track bar setup is th easiest for common parts but if I can make my front and rear link system use equal length arms or at least a couple common ones it would be bad ass. But yes full hydro is the plan. I also thought about doing just an assist but full makes more sense. And from people I've talked to Who have full hydro on their big trucks that are on road off road rigs say it's awesome and no drive ability issues. No I mean big big trucks. 5ton plus. 3-4 axles lol.
But on your above thoughts I still think coilovers will save you a ton of time and money
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby Colibri » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:57 pm

EMF has an extremely badass center linked hydro steering setup that's worth taking a look at, it provides a mechanical linkage as backup all in a very slick package
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby DamageWagon » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:42 am

Colibri wrote:EMF has an extremely badass center linked hydro steering setup that's worth taking a look at, it provides a mechanical linkage as backup all in a very slick package


I would really like to see this. I was just on the phone with Clay a few days ago. Most of my front end is EMF now and I love their stuff. Just follow the fucking instructions! I didn't when I installed their ball joints, low and behold my steering was crappy because of it lol. Clay said he did the same thing I did and luckily there was an easy solution. Love their stuff! And their prices haha
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby Colibri » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:03 pm

Ask and ye shall receive
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Tue May 02, 2017 4:54 pm

VERY nice!!!!! Looks great!!!! I look forward to seeing how it works for you!
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby whitey » Mon May 08, 2017 9:53 pm

I would talk with Chase at East Coast Gear Supply in raleigh. They can set up pretty much anything you want. They specialize in axles but can do some pretty crazy things. I thought about radius arms for a while too but didn't want to lose the way my truck flexes. My front axle can only go 0.5" forward without a lot of work. I am at a 4" lift with 37"s and did the trimming option with the BFH on a pinch weld hidden in the rear of front wheel wells. I would also have to limit up travel too if I went with larger tires or move more stuff inside fenders for clearance. I rub a little in top of front fenders when the truck is nose down at full flex. I really do think there's a simple answer, just a ton of work
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RAM4ROKS » Tue May 09, 2017 7:17 pm

Thanks for the input Whitey! Yeah, I have met Chase at ECGS before, they do great work!!! If I end up going with a full custom route, I'll probably be talking with Chris at Marsfab, his shop is only a few minutes from my house and he does some absolutely incredible builds as well!!!!

I am thinking I may be doing some body work to french the wire terminals that are in the rear of ,y driver's wheelwell into the footwell (right behind the inner fender liner) to protect them and clear them out of the way so that I can open up the wheelwell a little bit. I am thinking I may get a new set of wheels with a little less backspacing to allow my tires to stick out a little to get back my turning radius (quit having tires hitting the control arms so much) and to make the tires hit trail obstacles on the side of the truck BEFORE the body does. Doing so is going to require some creative fender work though, lol!

In terms of front axle forward mobility, you and I are in the same boat (.5" max before a LOT of work), I have Carli's MIG/mild arms that accomplish that.

I haven't encountered any rubbing at the tops of the wheelwells yet BUT, I am still running stock wheels.

Need to meet up with you again for some wheeling soon!!!
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby RustyPW » Tue May 09, 2017 9:27 pm

Wheels with less BS. Check out Centerlines. Mine are 17x9 with 5.25 BS.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby Colibri » Wed May 10, 2017 7:05 am

Some time with a grinder and hammer in your front wheel wells can work wonders. I've done a lot of clearance work on the inner fender and trimming of the lower back edge of the lip, also had to pull the front cab mount and jack the body up so I could route the harness behind the front cab mount and get it out of the way.
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby DamageWagon » Thu May 11, 2017 10:14 pm

Before going crazy I would really suggest just looking at existing setups. The improvement seen by going from a 5-link to a triangulated 4-link cannot even be felt by most people, and those who can feel it will notice very little difference. Most of the difference is how the body "stands" on the Trackbar. As far as crawling goes, you would probably lose a ton of articulation by swapping suspension systems due to frame design not permitting the open-ended concept needed in most link setups.

As far as coilovers go, they are an excellent upgrade and I probably will end up doing them on my truck, but NOT on the front. The rear is what needs improvement on these trucks. The front with long arms is amazing.

You can fit 38's on a truck with bolt on mods. Or you can spend thousands of dollars and thousands of hours to fit 40's. Even going from 33's to 37's isn't even cost effective in my mind after spending a week in Moab with guys who had 37's. My 33's did awesome, with a frigging camper on the back of my truck! Rock sliders compensate for 37's.

Sorry f I sound like a dick, I'm trying to save you a massive amount of time and money that will not yield expected results.

Oh, I might be coming out with the body armor you're looking for in a year or so [emoji851]
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby nts007 » Thu May 11, 2017 10:48 pm

You're just jealous of the 37's don't fib!! You're getting 37's asap haha
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Re: moving front axle forward 1.5" on a four link truck?????

Postby DamageWagon » Thu May 11, 2017 11:09 pm

nts007 wrote:You're just jealous of the 37's don't fib!! You're getting 37's asap haha


That decision will come after a new camshaft and a tuner. And long arms. And maybe a few other things... I don't tow so I would like 37's, but only the Yoko Geolanders or a D range Toyo MT. Even those I'm split on. And my truck sucks for power as is, so the camshaft will tell me what I'm doing.

But seriously, 37's might be cool but you have to understand my stance on them. I don't give a darn for 37's when it comes to capability. In fact I think they actually hurt capability. What I do like about them is ride quality. More sidewalk on a tire means a better ride, and since I like to go fast and my shocks can take care of the big stuff, it's up to my tires to take care of the little stuff.
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