Decisions

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Decisions

Post by Digger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:02 am

I currently have a 2013 pw I have the chance at a good deal on a white 16 the only complaint I have about the 13' is that it is black I absolutely hate black "was the only color I could find at the time " question is what are the pros and cons 2013 vs 2016
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waldo
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Re: Decisions

Post by waldo » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:08 am

New suspension. It gives more flex and a better ride, but does nothing for wheel hop issue.

CAD. :thppt:

6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.

11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
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Re: Decisions

Post by Bigskyguy1976 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:02 am

Recently traded my 2012 PW for the 2016PW.

I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.

The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.

Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
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Re: Decisions

Post by adeluca73 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:12 am

Bigskyguy1976 wrote:Recently traded my 2012 PW for the 2016PW.

I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.

The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.

Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
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Re: Decisions

Post by TrueBlue13PW » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:17 am

waldo wrote:New suspension. It gives more flex and a better ride, but does nothing for wheel hop issue.

CAD. :thppt:

6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.

11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
I think you're wrong about more flex. The leaf spring trucks have more flex.

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Re: Decisions

Post by TrueBlue13PW » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:18 am

Bigskyguy1976 wrote:Recently traded my 2012 PW for the 2016PW.

I'm not sold on the 6.4 multi-displacement motor. The PW is far too heavy for the MDS to be very useful and sure seems like a point for maintenance and computer problems down the road.
I really miss the 4.56 gears in my 2012 PW. The new suspension feels a lot safer on the highway. My leaf-sprung 2012 was a death trap on the freeway when driving over bridge expansion joints. The thing would shoot across two lanes of traffic and fish tail even with the slightest bump on a freeway. That said, it was a better offroad suspension. The new suspension has really, really bad axle wrap and hop while off road.

The position of the axle lock dial in better on the 2016. You can actually see the lights when it's locked up where-as you couldn't see them hidden behind the gear leaver on the earlier models.

Also, I'm not sure why, but my 2012 5.7L felt far more powerful than my 2016 6.4L. I only have 2300 miles on my 2016. I've been told that computer de-tunes it while in "break-in" mode. Sounds like a load of bull to me but I may be wrong.
Something must have been wrong with your truck. I have a 2013 with leaf springs and it's solid on the highway. I've hit bridge expansion joints at 90+ and never had a problem.

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Re: Decisions

Post by waldo » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:21 am

TrueBlue13PW wrote:
waldo wrote:New suspension. It gives more flex and a better ride, but does nothing for wheel hop issue.

CAD. :thppt:

6.4 is nice, but takes expensive oil.

11.5" rear end, but only 4:10 gears.
I think you're wrong about more flex. The leaf spring trucks have more flex.
IDK, I've got both and 07 and a 16. Personally, I think the new one flexes better, but that's just my perception. I haven't really measured anything.
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Re: Decisions

Post by PWRider » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:50 am

Official rating by Chrysler for Gen 3 is 655 RTI meaning it cat raise it's leg 32" before it starts lifting it's paws off the ground . Leaf Gen 4 is about same.
For Gen 4's with coils it's only much more down to earth 510 - 26" up.
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Re: Decisions

Post by Digger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:20 pm

So I will loose power "due to gearing " and articulation trading up to the 16 ?
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Re: Decisions

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:28 pm

PWRider wrote:Official rating by Chrysler for Gen 3 is 655 RTI meaning it cat raise it's leg 32" before it starts lifting it's paws off the ground . Leaf Gen 4 is about same.
For Gen 4's with coils it's only much more down to earth 510 - 26" up.
What? Wow. Where did you get official numbers? Do you have a source. I have some sources for your numbers, but they don't say if they're offical:

2014: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 27031.html

vs

2005: http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2005/d ... page2.html

Now here is an interesting one for 2011: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/news/st ... range.aspx
The Ram Power Wagon offers a 460, or 23-inch vertical height, Ramp Travel Index (RTI), which is a measurement of a vehicle's suspension articulation, with the stabilizer bar engaged. With the stabilizer bar disengaged, the RTI is 655, a 32-inch vertical height.
I find that part interesting. I almost wonder if the 4th gen coil numbers you found and I found are with the sway bar engaged and not disengaged. As the numbers are closer to this article qoute for 2011.

Of interest to me is this video from TFLTruck in which they did the same test with the sway connected and disconnected:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-laMH9ErFEI

Notice they get 65 inches up the ramp with the sway bar engaged and then 88 inches up the ramp with it disengaged. That's huge. 23 inch difference. But their test isn't a true RTI test. So, take it with a grain of salt.

It would seem unwise for Ram to go backwards in their investment in most offroad capable. And while 6 inches doesn't seem like a lot, that is a lot. I would like to see a source that specifics both engaged and disengaged numbers. So far I've only found two sources for older trucks.

And I can't find anything clarifying which number is the number they publish as offical.
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Re: Decisions

Post by PWRider » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:52 pm

I watched TFL before. If you do math 90 * (sin 16.5) ~ 25.56 round up to 26. Just about right what is claimed.
Other figure is straight from my Owners Manual page 282.
Ramp Travel Index (RTI)
The ramp travel index is the distance, in inches, that you
can drive your vehicle with one wheel on a 20-degree
ramp without lifting any other wheel off the ground. This
distance up the ramp divided by the wheelbase of the
vehicle and multiplied by 1000 is the RTI. The Power
Wagon has an RTI of 655, which means you can articulate
one front wheel 32 inches in the air while the other three
wheels remain in contact with the ground.

High Mobility Characteristics
The Power Wagon has high off-road mobility characteristics
with an approach angle A= 35 degrees, a break-over
angle B= 25.5 degrees, a running ground clearance C=
14.5 inches, a departure angle D= 26.5 degrees, an axle to
ground clearance E= 8.4 inches front/E= 8.25 rear and
has a ramp travel index (with the smart bar in off-road
mode) of 655. Also the Power Wagon has a grade-ability
of a 60% (31 degree) slope.
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Re: Decisions

Post by Digger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:56 pm

So I am going to loose power due to gear ratio .and articulation with the 16' ?
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Re: Decisions

Post by PWRider » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:23 pm

Yeah it was a bit painful to watch it barely beating Raptor with ifs and sway bar. They don't make they like that used to anymore. 6" is very considerable. In real life though may not notice it much. Wonder what's more at fault front or rear.
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Re: Decisions

Post by Reloaderguy » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:32 pm

Probably the stiff coils.
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Re: Decisions

Post by RustyPW » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:15 pm

Believe it's the front suspension. The 4G's uses a 3 link radius arm. The 3G's using a 5 link front. There was a discussion about that when the 4G's first came out.
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Re: Decisions

Post by coder » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:04 pm

Digger wrote:So I am going to loose power due to gear ratio .anvd articulation with the 16' ?
Gears don't add power they simply put you're peak power at a lower engine rpm because the driveshaft is turning faster.
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Re: Decisions

Post by Digger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:27 pm

I understand the gear ratio does not reduce the power ... I was asking if the higher gear ratio and 6.4 the 16 would make a difference in torque put to the rear wheels as opposed to the 5.7 with 4.56
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Re: Decisions

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:58 pm

Digger wrote:I currently have a 2013 pw I have the chance at a good deal on a white 16 the only complaint I have about the 13' is that it is black I absolutely hate black "was the only color I could find at the time " question is what are the pros and cons 2013 vs 2016
Honestly I think 2013 is the best 4th Gen Power Wagon made so far. You still have the 4.56 gears, you have the newer interior, and you have the older suspension. I'm honestly not sold on the 6.4L with the 4.10 gears or the newer suspension. From what I've read, the 4.5 Gen Power Wagon doesn't articulate as well, it's actually slower in a 0-60 test, and it takes longer to stop. I'm not saying the 4.5 Gen Power Wagon's are a bad truck (if my 2012 got totaled today I'd have a 2016 Power Wagon in my garage), I'm just not convinced that they are better than what you currently have.
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Re: Decisions

Post by MOPARManiac » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:41 pm

What year did they start putting the ESP in Powerwagons? Was it 2012 or 2013?
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Re: Decisions

Post by Will » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:53 pm

I'll keep rocking the 2010 with no nannies haha
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Re: Decisions

Post by Will » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:56 pm

The newer ones have much better potential for articulation though.
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Re: Decisions

Post by BoldAdventure » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:53 pm

I posted this observation elsewhere, but I suspect the reason why the 5.7 feels like it has more power while the 6.4 feels sluggish, despite having more power on paper is tuning. WTF is with that 3000rpm rev limiter in park? My 1500 felt like a high rever, and sporty. The 6.4 feels like I have to insist on it giving me the damn power. It's there, when you get it, is it there. But the throttle response and some other aspects, it's almost like you mash the peddle and the truck wants to ask, "Are you really sure?"

Turn off the ESP, put it in tow haul and drive around in 3rd. That's how the truck should feel. But it doesn't. I realize it's a heavy HD truck. And I think Ram focused on reliability under working conditions. 1500's tend to be used even more as daily drivers, and it makes sense that the 5.7 is tuned differently if you think about the line up.

I know the 6.4 pulls my Airstream up a hill with more ease than the 5.7 1500 did. But there is something I can't place my finger on. And I think it's related to how this engine has been tuned.

You know, there was this rule at GM where nothing could be faster than the Corvette, and some things actually had better engines. And then got detuned. And I almost wonder if there is a rule about the 6.4L can't be better than the diesel? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just guessing out my butt. But, maybe.
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Re: Decisions

Post by waldo » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:07 pm

I think it's more in the trans gearing and the shitty way the PCM handles the shifts and the throttle input. I think when they finally come up with a tuner for the new ones it will cure most of that.
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Re: Decisions

Post by RustyPW » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:28 pm

There is a program in the computer called Torque Management. It controls the torque at a given parameter. Seems like it's controlling more in the 6.4. With some tuners, you can change the settings.
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Re: Decisions

Post by walc » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:52 pm

All my previous Rams were 1500's, with the 5.7L Hemi; including the 2014 I traded for my 2016 PW.
I'm very happy with the acceleration, power, and shifting of the 6.4L Hemi.
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