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RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Bill2014 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:57 am

So, last week I was slowly backing up in 2-hi and the driver side rear wheel went over a patch of ice. The truck stopped and the driver rear wheel continued to spin. I thought that was strange with the rear LSD - but the weather was shitty and I didn't have time to I investigate any further.

:wtf:

So this week, I noticed a patch of ice in the driveway and tested the rear LSD. Again, backing up in 2-hi, the driver side rear wheel got on top of the ice and began to spin. The truck came to a stop. I pressed on the brake and the wheel stopped spinning. I let off the brake, and the driver side rear wheel began spinning in reverse without even giving it any gas. I gave it some gas and the wheel would just spin faster. I tried both the brake and the gas together, but no combination of pressures would cause the truck to budge in reverse. I put the truck in drive, the rear driver wheel gave a small slip and the truck moved forward as the LSD worked in the forward direction.

Hmmm - is the RAM LSD supposed to do anything in reverse? Anyone else tested this?
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby nts007 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:22 pm

This is really weird. I was backing up on ice and both my tires spun at all times. Wether or not one tire found traction. I only would get a little slip maybe 1/4 turn starting at a standstill then they would both lock up. Forward or reverse. I had to try to see if it was the same as you. Unless I can't replicate your exact situation. I was trying in a slight incline too. Also never noticed in snow that it would do that
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Will » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:27 pm

I tried to replicate this in my 2010 and mine spins both (Wet slick red clay, I assume as bad as ice) forward, reverse, doesn't matter, both rears spin.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Bill2014 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:58 pm

Thanks for testing... Hmmm, I wonder if anything could be different with the AAM 11.5?
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby usmc369 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:05 pm

Havent tried on ice but if I floor it in reverse I get two black patches.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby loveracing1988 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:13 am

Bill2014 wrote:Thanks for testing... Hmmm, I wonder if anything could be different with the AAM 11.5?

Same exact helical lsd design.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby waldo » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:13 am

I know the 3G LS works in reverse, but to be honest I haven't paid much attention to the new one when it comes to that.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Bill2014 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:43 am

More testing on ice this morning all in 2-Hi.

On pavement, with traction control off, both rear wheels spin together in forward or reverse. With one wheel on pavement and the other on gravel, again both wheels spin together in forward or reverse. (This is as I would expect)

Introduce smooth ice and everything is different:
With one rear wheel on smooth ice - shift into reverse and the wheel on ice spins backwards without giving any gas. Applying the brake slows and then stops the tire from spinning but does not help the vehicle to move at all. Shift into drive and the wheel on ice now spins forward without giving any gas. Hitting the gas quickly just spins the tire faster. The sudden engine acceleration does cause the truck to move slightly but it settles back into position with the wheel spinning faster. (I did not expect this behavior with the rear LSD). Had to put it in 4-Hi to move the truck at this point to test some more.

Back into 2-Hi and both rear wheels on smooth ice. Shift into reverse and both rear wheels spin backwards without giving any gas. Rear-end slowly slides sideways as both rear wheels slowly spin together. Shift into drive and both rear wheels spin forward together without giving any gas. (This is as I would expect). Had to put the truck in 4-Hi again to move it off of the ice.

So it appears that if one rear wheel has no traction at all, such as being on smooth ice or up in the air, then the rear LSD isn't going to do anything useful for you. I didn't expect this to be the case!!! :angry:
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby azracer » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:56 pm

It is a helical LSD and this is why we need a locker.

Here are two versions. However neither is an exact representation of our trucks helical LSD.

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2) Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton 165 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf
3) Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler by Antony C. Sutton 148 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... Hitler.pdf
4) Wall Street and FDR by Antony C. Sutton 177 pages http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125049.pdf
5) Dishonest Money by Joseph Plummer 175 pages http://joeplummer.com/dishonest-money.html
6) None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen 197 pages http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/libra ... y_1971.pdf
David Rockefeller: Memoirs (The story of traitors)
http://www.devvy.com/pdf/2006_November/ ... rnment.pdf
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby RustyPW » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:25 pm

Guys at the track don't like helical LSD's. If the inside tire lifts during a turn. All the power goes toward the lifted wheel. Killing your drive. I installed a Cusco Type RS, set-up as a 1.5 one way in my track car. If the inside tire lifts. It will still drive the car with the outside tire. Plus you can tune it.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Colibri » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:59 pm

Cusco makes a good differential I have one in my track car as well! The lsd in our trucks biases torque, if no torque is present nothing happens. 0 X any number is still 0 so to speak. A clutch type lsd can be built with preloaded bias. I don't think a clutch type would last very long for our application though.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby nts007 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:35 pm

Colibri wrote:Cusco makes a good differential I have one in my track car as well! The lsd in our trucks biases torque, if no torque is present nothing happens. 0 X any number is still 0 so to speak. A clutch type lsd can be built with preloaded bias. I don't think a clutch type would last very long for our application though.

Not very well under high torque. Or ask gm how their fancy Swiss watch lsd works lol. Wait it doesn't. Cause it breaks in 99% of the trucks lol
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Bill2014 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:52 pm

*sigh*
I'm a little disappointed in the reality of the situation. Was kinda hoping that I had something wrong that I could have fixed. Wouldn't it be great if the trucks actually had a LSD that would work in a zero traction situation and hold up in the heavy duty trucks. Thank God we have the lockers for off-road!!!!
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby azracer » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:57 pm

Here are two good options for a truck... Lock Right and the Detroit locker sadly I don't think either is available for the dodge. In reality our units are the best for towing and such while having the option to lock it electronically sure makes it superior in my book. The Detroit is not the best for towing because it can hang up and let on axle do all the work in some situations.

http://www.powertrax.com/

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Vehicle/Differentials/detroit-locker/
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Beginners reading list:
1) Quigley’s Anglo-American Establishment – 354 pages http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/the_a ... shment.pdf
2) Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton 165 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf
3) Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler by Antony C. Sutton 148 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... Hitler.pdf
4) Wall Street and FDR by Antony C. Sutton 177 pages http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125049.pdf
5) Dishonest Money by Joseph Plummer 175 pages http://joeplummer.com/dishonest-money.html
6) None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen 197 pages http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/libra ... y_1971.pdf
David Rockefeller: Memoirs (The story of traitors)
http://www.devvy.com/pdf/2006_November/ ... rnment.pdf
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby RustyPW » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:13 pm

I had a Detroit locker in a '90 Nissan Hardbody V6 4x4 with a 100" WB. Worked great off-road. Streets manners was something else. :shock: Going through a turn with the power on, it would push the front to the outside. Lift the gas, and it would pull the front to the inside of a turn. Coming out of a turn onto a straight. It lock up with a bang, and shake the truck. Going around slow speed turns. It would chirp the inside tire.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby azracer » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:51 pm

Yup that's why I went with the power lock in my ranger with a ford 9" using 600 gears. Spool does the same as the Detroit but the race truck had to have a spool. They say the Detroit soft lock is much better now but I have never used one.
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Beginners reading list:
1) Quigley’s Anglo-American Establishment – 354 pages http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/the_a ... shment.pdf
2) Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton 165 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf
3) Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler by Antony C. Sutton 148 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... Hitler.pdf
4) Wall Street and FDR by Antony C. Sutton 177 pages http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125049.pdf
5) Dishonest Money by Joseph Plummer 175 pages http://joeplummer.com/dishonest-money.html
6) None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen 197 pages http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/libra ... y_1971.pdf
David Rockefeller: Memoirs (The story of traitors)
http://www.devvy.com/pdf/2006_November/ ... rnment.pdf
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby 2wagons1driveway » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:57 pm

This is normal for a helical limited slip the dodge hd LSD sucks compared to some others...


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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby nts007 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:30 pm

2wagons1driveway wrote:This is normal for a helical limited slip the dodge hd LSD sucks compared to some others...


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I'd disagree as your comparing to aftermarket. It's likely one of the best offered in any factory truck. Even Ford advertises a lsd but after a year or two it just stops working. I don't have exp with the imports but in the factory 3/4-1tons it's the best the factory offers
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Cactus Red » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:33 pm

From my perspective, the LDS does a fine job in our trucks. It requires no maintenance, uses standard gear oil, and is very unobtrusive in normal driving. It does provide traction in most circumstances, and when it doesn't, a simple push of a button locks the axle. I've found it to be reliable enough that other than severe crossed axle articulation, deep snow, sand, or mud, the locker is rarely used. Heck, even with as much 4X4 time as we do, I'd say the lockers are only used a few times a year.

My experience with Detroit lockers is limited to my Toyota trail rig. I broke both front and rear lockers on Outer Limits at the Hammers the same day. And on pavement, they sucked with a 5 speed. Went with dual spools after that.

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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby RustyPW » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:52 pm

The LSD in my 3G works great. Alot of times. I never lock the locker. It will spin both wheels in both directions.
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Mods to the PW; Nerffed Mopar RockRails, Wheel Well Liners, Bushwacker Pocket Fender Flairs, Garvmin dezl 560LMT GPS, Power Wagon Winch Kit, Line X Ultra Bed Liner, PIAA Headlight Bulbs, PIAA 580 Driving Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 Fog Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 ATP Off-Road Lights (135 watt), Locker Bypass, Modifed Rockcrusher Diff Covers, Mopar Utility Bed Rails and Tool Box, Warn Winch Wireless Remote Control, "el-cheapo" Inclinometer, Airaid CAI, Winch TPS Bypass, 35" Toyo's, Mopar Spare Tire Lock, 'T' Steering Linkage, Modifed PSC Steering Brace, P3 Brake Controller, Modifed Fusion "mall crawler" rear bumper , PIAA 1500 Back-Up Lights, 1Ton HEMI Tranny Cooler, Leer 100XR Bed Cap, Factory Tow Mirrors, CenterLine Rims 17x9-5.25 BS, Mag-Hytec Tranny Pan, AutoMeter Gauges, PSC Extreme Hydro Assist Steering, Carli Track Bar, Carli Ball-Joints, Dynatrac FreeSpin Hubs, Snorkel, RCV Axles, EBC Pads & Rotors, Aluminess Front Bumper, BIG Pul-Pal, 60" Extreme Hi-lift Jack, and more riggin' equipment, Carli Long Travel Air Bags, Bilstein 7100 Shocks - Carli Valving, MORE STUFF COMIN'.

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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Will » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:50 am

I like it. It works perfectly in my opinion and like said, we have a true locker to back it up. I suppose ice would mimic a lifted tire as far as resistance. The only time I've had "one wheel spin" is when articulated far enough I lift a tire, then it will spin freely. I wouldn't want anything else, especially when towing, I'd tear something up for sure then. It is what it is, Limited Slip, not Zero Slip.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby waldo » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:14 am

Will wrote:I like it. It works perfectly in my opinion and like said, we have a true locker to back it up. I suppose ice would mimic a lifted tire as far as resistance. The only time I've had "one wheel spin" is when articulated far enough I lift a tire, then it will spin freely. I wouldn't want anything else, especially when towing, I'd tear something up for sure then. It is what it is, Limited Slip, not Zero Slip.


Yeah, I can't complain about the LS in my 07. I live in snow country and it does well. Got caught in some real ice storms over the years. Bad ones where you had to straddle the crown of the road to keep from sliding off into the ditch bad. Truck would still go forward.
I haven't driven the 16 on real ice though, just slush and snow.
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby 2wagons1driveway » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:31 am

It's Deffinately better than no LSD


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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby RAM4ROKS » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:13 pm

We don't get much ice or snow here but, I have never noticed my LSD doing anything with throttle other than spinning both tires. (except when the TC cuts in too much and won't let it spin tires at all) Dry pavement, wet pavement, mud, etc, both tires spin. I cannot comment on your exact circumstances though, as I don't recall ever having reversed with one tire on pavement and the other on ice so....?
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Re: RAM LSD in reverse?

Postby Will » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:48 pm

Here you go, left rear jacked up just enough to clear concrete, left off brake it it spins.

https://vimeo.com/158541546
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viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2333

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