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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby 2011TXPowerWagon » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:25 am

I have seen some measurements online to fab up one, not sure how hard it would be or how effective it would turn out.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby RedMan » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:37 pm

Gents, there is an easier and less expensive way to do this. Go to any Marina or pawn shop near an ocean/large lake and buy an anchor for a 30' boat and be done with it. I keep one in my truck at all times and have used it in the swamps, beach, power lines and other places that I am not thinking of right now.

I will take pics tomorrow of the anchor and how I have it set up.

The real trick is how to pull it out the ground when finished, this took me a few minutes to figure out the first time using it. But... once you see how I have it set up... the light will come on for how it works.

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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:57 pm

Danny, did you ever get a pic of your anchor? Since I got stuck again this past weekend, I'm looking for more recovery equipment and found this anchor at Fisheries Supply. It's a 16 lb Danforth at $104 with free shipping. The product description says the design originated for pulling landing craft off beaches in WWII, and the sales guy at Fisheries Supply said this design bites real well in sand and should work for what I need to do with my winch. The hole at the end of the shaft is 1/2" diameter, so will take a decent D-ring. Listed for 27-36 foot boats and flukes are 16-1/2". Am I on the right track, or are you using something different?
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Cactus Red » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:01 pm

As an old Coasty, I can tell you a marine anchor isn't designed to take the same type of stresses a PulPal is, and they bite in completely different ways. The PulPal is more of a plow than an anchor -it pulls itself down vs a marine anchor that's works to wedge itself into material. Large anchors also require the proper length and weight of chain to operate correctly.

The 1/2 in shackle also bothers me. Your winch exceeds it's rating by more than double, and I question the rating of the anchor if that's all it uses. A boat doesn't generate anywhere near the forces we do.

Will it work? Maybe, but not for me. Get the right tool for the job.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:02 pm

The 1/2 in shackle also bothers me. Your winch exceeds it's rating by more than double

Bothers me too. Since the hole is oblong, I was thinking about two shackles, but that's probably not prudent. I just don't have room in the truck for a PullPal, even if I wanted to spend that kind of money. Maybe two anchors connected to a "y" with a pair of short tow straps or tree savers? Best price I see on a PullPal 14000 is about $540, and I can probably find a pair of anchors on CraigsList for $100/pair around San Diego. Still in the thinking stages.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Cactus Red » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:16 pm

Another option is to drive steel bars thru heavy chain. I've seen it done in a line or a Y. 3/4" x 30" concrete stakes work well. It takes 6 to 8 stakes. Finding the large link chain should be doable in a coastal town.

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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:06 am

Just looked on CraigsList and there are dozens of Danforth and Danforth-knockoff anchors available locally. Seems there is a big market for surplus and used anchors, and even some private sellers have multiple pieces of the same anchor in just about any size one would want.

I have seen videos of the stake-and-chain approach. Not quick or convenient, but also does not take much space in the truck. The best recovery tool is the one you have with you.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Will » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:06 am

In somewhat hard dirt, it's hard to beat a chain and a hand full of 3' long pieces of rebar and a sledge hammer. Lay chain on ground, drive rebar through chain and hook up :D
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:42 am

In somewhat hard dirt, it's hard to beat a chain and a hand full of 3' long pieces of rebar

Most of my stucks are in sand or really soft stuff. I already carry a 3-lb sledge so that part is covered.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Will » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:47 am

Ducky's Dad wrote:
In somewhat hard dirt, it's hard to beat a chain and a hand full of 3' long pieces of rebar

Most of my stucks are in sand or really soft stuff. I already carry a 3-lb sledge so that part is covered.


Get some longer rebar then, you're bound to find something down there :lol:
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:27 pm

Brit Army/NATO Ground Anchors

Anybody have experience with these? Any sources for them on this side of the pond?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lTJonAaSHE

http://www.denbigharmysurplus.co.uk/pro ... 3898292804
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Cactus Red » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:40 pm

I'll make an inquiry on'm with someone that should know...
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Cactus Red » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:01 pm

They are part of a system that includes a plate w/ holes in it. The UK version is roughly 36" long w/ 8 holes. That part could be replicated by purchasing 1/2" plate, having a shop plasma cut or drill holes in it. If the plate is made, a standard concrete stake would work fine. The picture is of the UK plate - a flat one would be fine.

Still waiting to hear back on my inquiry...
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:25 pm

Thanks for following up. This is the plate that Denbeigh sells in the UK. Seems like if you buy the system with the plate and eight stakes, it's about $290 plus freight, customs and all the other BS. With all that, probably getting close to the $500 cost of a Pull Pal, but takes less space than a Pull Pal. OTOH, Pull Pal is less work to deploy and use.



I spoke with OK Offroad about Pull Pals, and they told me to not even think about anything smaller than the RW 14000 for the PW. Pull Pal is real picky about not undersizing the tool for the truck.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:59 pm

Here is an interesting video on anchor design. Looks like Rocna and Vulcan anchors might work, but they are very expensive. A 26 pound Vulcan sells new for $300 and a 22 pound Rocna sells for $250, both in galvanized steel.
http://rocna.com/the-film
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby RustyPW » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:14 pm

Hey Ducky, I have the 14,000lbs Pul-Pal with the body bag. It take up no space in the bed of my PW. I have it position in between the front of my tool box and the front of the bed, standing on edge. Most of the time, I forget it's even there.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby adeluca73 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:38 pm

I've spent the last 2+ hrs scouting the Internet for something comparable to the pull-pal w/o much success. There's got to be another option that's not $600+. Just seems awfully high for what it is, & for something that will seldom, if ever, get used. There is a shittybuilt knock off for $150, but reviews I've read state it's a poor quality Chinese knockoff :shock:
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:14 pm

There is a shittybuilt knock off for $150, but reviews I've read state it's a poor quality Chinese knockoff :shock:

You probably saw the same review I did. Performance is consistent with the nickname.

I can't find any alternative to the Pull Pal, even in the milsurp marketplace. Pull Pal says they make a big unit (RW16000) that they sell to the military for Hummers and such. They recommend the RW14000 for trucks our size. I found a lightly used RW11000 (Jeep size, for 6000 pound vehicles) for "only" $200 and I'm thinking it is probably better than what I have now (which is essentially nothing for forward winch pulls in sand). If I limit pulls to a fully wrapped drum over short distances, I might be OK. Short pulls with a fully wrapped drum are feasible because I can put the Pull Pal wherever I want it in the sand. A slow pull is better than no pull. Warn website says you reduce pull force by about 15% for each wrap on the drum, but that is not consistent with the pull tables for the M12000 as shown on their website. I think I need to call Warn and call Pull Pal.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:48 am

Here is a video of a 2G CTG trying to pull a Spade 26 pound boat anchor through beach sand. Seems to lock up the truck pretty well, but takes a fair distance to dig in enough to bite. Spade design looks a lot like the Rocna/Vulcan design, but with a reinforcing gusset and more weight toward the tip. Wet beach sand is a lot denser than dry desert sand, so may not work as well in the desert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjuif0HCVi4

Just looked up the Spade Aluminum 100 at Fisheries Supply. That thing is almost $1200, so it had better be good.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:00 pm

ARB sells their version of a ground anchor, somewhat similar to the Pull-Pal in concept. Formerly known as the P.R.T. Portable Recovery Tree. In stock at ARB for $620 each. User reviews on some Brit and Aussie sites report that it does not bite into some surfaces as effectively as the Pull-Pal, but some guys love this thing.

http://store.arbusa.com/ARB-Portable-Gr ... P3599.aspx
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Cactus Red » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:12 pm

Ducky, how far down did you go on tire pressure in your last stuck?. I buried the truck to the rails in Parker silt a few years ago. After clearing out the valve stems and around the tires, I dropped to 5 PSI. At that I was able to slowly bump the truck back and forth, and it made it's way back to the top as the sand/silt filled in behind and in front of the tires. Once on top, they got aired up to 10, and I drove it away.

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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:20 pm

how far down did you go on tire pressure in your last stuck?.

On this one, did not air them down at all, on the theory that the front end was wedged pretty snugly and I would be better off getting bridging ladders under the R/F front tire. I tried bumping the truck forward/reverse, but it was not budging. The ground anchor/Pull-Pal discussion is an outgrowth of that situation, but not a response to it because I could not have moved forward anyway. Needed to go backwards to get out of the hole. Actually thought about the dumbass move of jacking up the truck and then driving backwards until the truck fell off the jack. Would have gotten me out, but with what minor damage?
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Stickman » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:45 pm

Don't know if this contributes to the situation any but have you guys seen the new Toyotas with crawl control? It's essentially a computer controlled abs type of mode you can turn on that spins the tires slowly in short intervals to get sand packed underneath the tires slowly and eventually builds enough up so that it will pull itself out in reverse, even when completely buried up to the frame. Basically sounds like what Cactus did but with a push of a button and without digging anything out or deflating the tires. Basically just goes to show you can get out with just 4x4 if you are easy on the gas and can get enough sand built up under the tires.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Ducky's Dad » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:29 pm

Toyotas with crawl control?

Just not for me. Another computer-controlled gizmo for folks who don't know how to drive.

I am now the owner of a Pull-Pal RW11000 (the size for Jeeps and mid-size trucks). Found it on CraigsList, got it for $160 so couldn't pass it up. Even if I bend it on the first recovery, it will have paid for itself. The guy I got it from told me that his brother had used it a couple of times with a HumVee H1 and it worked OK with that beast. Still looking for an RW14000 at the right price.
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Re: Winching and Recovery 101

Postby Cactus Red » Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:33 pm

Nice! The frame is plenty strong, so you can add width to the spade if desired to get a better bite. Once buried, they are difficult to remove, so attach a chunk of chain or cable to the spade end of the frame so you can pull it out if you can get in front of it. I doubt you'll need the bigger unit.
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