Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

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Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:55 am

I dug into the wiring diagrams and did a little testing on the truck today and as I suspected, the OEM knob is resistance based rather than having a wire for each function. This is going to make using the OEM knob a little more difficult but I've got some ideas up my sleeve.

My question to you guys is, what are you willing to pay for a plug and play hardwired locker kit and how many would be interested? I'm not certain but this should work on 3rd gens as well. I would just have to confirm that the plugs are all the same. I have a vision of creating the control module and wire harness that taps into existing connectors. There would be no cutting of the factory wire harness and you could easily unplug everything and go back to stock for dealer trips. Until I can nail down exactly what connectors I need to match the factory plugs and figure out the guts of the control module, I won't really know what my cost will be.
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by w2dodge » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:16 am

That would be awsome ...as for $$...I wouldnt be any help....I payed 100$ for p-p bypass..and for now the lockers are working as they should ...thank god

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:34 am

myoung84 wrote:I dug into the wiring diagrams and did a little testing on the truck today and as I suspected, the OEM knob is resistance based rather than having a wire for each function. This is going to make using the OEM knob a little more difficult but I've got some ideas up my sleeve.

My question to you guys is, what are you willing to pay for a plug and play hardwired locker kit and how many would be interested? I'm not certain but this should work on 3rd gens as well. I would just have to confirm that the plugs are all the same. I have a vision of creating the control module and wire harness that taps into existing connectors. There would be no cutting of the factory wire harness and you could easily unplug everything and go back to stock for dealer trips. Until I can nail down exactly what connectors I need to match the factory plugs and figure out the guts of the control module, I won't really know what my cost will be.
If you build it, I will pay! Like I said in our PM's the other day, I'm really getting the itch for a Carli lift and bigger tires, but I'm not willing to drop another penny into this truck until the lockers actually work like they should. If you figure out a way to make the factory switch work, I want the honor of being your first customer!
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by TwinStick » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:35 am

I would be interested but do not want to be the guinea pig for the 3rd Gens. I have a P & P bypass i bought for $35. Have never used it or hooked it up. No, it is not for sale.
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by Pit Slave » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:05 pm

I got the part numbers you need as this was a project I had been working on, but had to shelf it due to time constraints. When I get home I'll pm them as well as what I've done sofar.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by wingerak92 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:21 pm

Is be dipping into my tire fund for this.
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by azracer » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:35 pm

I would think that a single switch wired to two relays that goes to a plug that replaces the OEM wires and plug entirely would be not only the safest and most reliable, but would facilitate the return to OEM in short order for warranty or dealer service and or repairs.

Quite a few of us have OEM lifetime warranties (B to B or powertrain) and won't want to jeopardies that. If selling the truck you might be better off returning to stock and advising the buyer of the option to switch to and use the hardwire option. If trading it in take the system out all together and return it to OEM.

IMHO a Lighted DP-DT non diode switch controlling two diode suppressed relays under the hood that are then routed to the differentials and connected in place of the OEM harness connector with an OEM style connector would be the most reliable solution. It would be idiot proof as "up" is rear only, "center" is none and "down" would be front and rear. The lighted switch illuminates when it is the up or down position only alerting the driver that he is locked. A rocker type switch would be most desirable to help prevent accidental engagement. We may need to place a jumper in the OEM plug (then heat shrink seal it) to keep the warning indicators off on the dash and fool the OEM system into believing the lockers are unlocked.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:24 pm

I'll try and describe what I have envisioned. My system would be totally plug and play and would not require any wiring inside the cab. Returning to stock would be as simple as removing the bypass harness and plugging all the factory connectors back in the stock locations.

I found the harness coming out of the cab and down to the smart bar. There's a very easy to get to Delphi connector under the hood that you would unplug and and insert a T style harness between the two plugs. The wires for the sway bar disconnect would pass straight through (this could possibly be integrated into the bypass as well) and the wires for the locker dial position wire and illumination wires would be routed to the control box. Inside that control box would be a relay board with two adjustable trip relays. On the position sense wire, I have 0.9V Open, 1.9V Rear, and 2.7V Front/Rear. I would calibrate relay 1 to close at around 1.7V and relay 2 to close at around 2.5V. With the knob in the Rear only position, relay 1 would close and only the rear would be activated. When the knob is turned to Front/Rear, both relays would be closed and would then energize both locker solenoids at the same time. You wouldn't have to wait for the rear to lock before front locks. Once the knob goes back to open, both relays open and unlocks both axles.

Out of this box would be two harnesses, one for the front locker and one for the rear. The front will be easy since there is a connector before the axle near the smart bar that is only the four wires for the locker. Another T harness would be used here. The rear is a little more tricky. There's a 14 pin connector under the hood on the driver side that includes the four wires for the rear locker, along with some other functions suck as turn signals, A/C pressure, and CAN bus wires. 10 of those wires would pass straight through on the T harness and the other four would interface with the control module. The only other option is to run a wire harness all the way back to rear axle and tie in there. I'd like to avoid that to make it easier to return to stock.

For the lights to operate, I could do a couple things. First would be to wire the lights to the output of the relays. So as soon as the knob is turned, the appropriate light illuminates. The second option is to use the two status wires on the locker harness. These should be open with the axle is unlocked and closed when the axle is open. This would give you real time status of the lockers.
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:02 pm

They did some funky stuff with the rear locker wires to the rear axle. There's a four pin connector behind the driver side front wheel well that has the solenoid wires. Then they have the status wires in another 30+ pin harness. So, I could avoid using the 14 pin connector for the rear if we didn't want to have real time indication. Doing it this way would illuminate the light at each knob position, whether they were actually locked up or not.

I also wonder if I leave the sensing wires in tact through the smart bar would the lights on the OEM knob still illuminate when the lockers actually locked?
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by jeep_boy02 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Definitely interested as I have had the need to use the rear locker in 2x a few times. I have not needed(yet) them in 4hi but I still believe having the lockers for use at anytime should be how it is and I would rather not have a useless knob on the dash.

Not sure as to how much I'd want to spend but it would all depend on ease of install/outstall and ease and dependability of use.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:11 pm

I'm making some good progress sourcing the OEM plugs. Hopefully I can have a parts list pulled together this week and possibly order some stuff. :D

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by nrooney21 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:58 pm

I would love to have one

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by MSCH2112 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:32 pm

you build it and i will pay $$$! Defiantly worth the bucks in the long run.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by hemihead2 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:41 pm

So how is this any better than the P&P bypass kit I just installed? What am I missing, here?

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:55 pm

The locker bypass allows you to lock the lockers in 4Hi and 2WD, but everything still runs through the smart bar which is where the problems come up. This will eliminate the lockers from being controlled by the smart bar. Several people have already hardwired in new switches and they work great. What I'm trying to do is take that one step further and use the factory selector knob.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:02 pm

Stupid Question- would this allow the use of lockers in 4-Hi as well?
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:19 pm

Yes it would. And 2wd.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by 04Ram2500Hemi » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:36 pm

Please figure this mod out! I'm very hopeful.
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:45 pm

As long as this relay board works like it's advertised and I can get both the male and female sides of all the Delphi connectors I need, it shouldn't be an issue. I'll order enough parts to do my truck then I'll take it back off and use it as a template for more of them. It will be a perfect fit for 4th gen trucks.

Are we good with just lighting up the position indicator for each position?

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by ScottWagon1 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:23 pm

I'm good with that!
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by jeep_boy02 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:44 pm

"lighting up" as in its lit even if its trying to still lock in and not flashing like factory until it is locked in?

or just no "flashing" and unlit=unlocked and lit=locked?

either way I'd rather go and pay for this than a hard wire and I don't even want to go with a bypass from what I've read.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:14 am

When the knob is in the open position, the green light is on. When it's in rear, the rear light is on, and FT/RR the FT/RR light is on. Doesn't matter if they are actually locked or not. This method would be simpler, but I still think I would like to try the other method first. The lights would be off until the the axle is locked, then it would be soild. No more flashing for either method.

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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by JBM Power Wagon » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:47 am

myoung84 wrote:When the knob is in the open position, the green light is on. When it's in rear, the rear light is on, and FT/RR the FT/RR light is on. Doesn't matter if they are actually locked or not. This method would be simpler, but I still think I would like to try the other method first. The lights would be off until the the axle is locked, then it would be soild. No more flashing for either method.

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I am VERY interested in this as well! And I like the idea above for the indicator lights. Would the smart bar still work exactly as it does from the factory?
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by Juday » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:22 am

Plug-'n-Play, you say? Count me in. :)
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Re: Hardwired Lockers with OEM Knob

Post by myoung84 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:47 am

JBM Power Wagon wrote:
myoung84 wrote:When the knob is in the open position, the green light is on. When it's in rear, the rear light is on, and FT/RR the FT/RR light is on. Doesn't matter if they are actually locked or not. This method would be simpler, but I still think I would like to try the other method first. The lights would be off until the the axle is locked, then it would be soild. No more flashing for either method.

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I am VERY interested in this as well! And I like the idea above for the indicator lights. Would the smart bar still work exactly as it does from the factory?
Which idea? There are two there. LOL

One gives actual indication of the status and one just tells you where the knob is pointed. I like having the actual status but I'll have to make sure it will work like I think it will. It will make a difference when I build the harness since I'll have to use different plugs for either option. I'm not going to build two harnesses so I'll need to go with what you guys want most...
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