Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

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IIIOIISTER
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Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by IIIOIISTER » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 pm

Has anyone tried to fabricate a shock mount for the 2014+ Ram 2500/Power Wagon so that the King 3.5/3.0 shock package for the earlier 2500 (e.g. "Carli Unchained") can be installed? I emailed Carli Suspensions with a similar question and it sounds like they are (have been) working on a King 3.0 package for the current gen 2500s. I would assume that some one has already attempted to or has modified the stock coil bucket/mounts in order to throw some beefier shocks in.
'17 Power Wagon
35" Yokohama Geolander G003
Carli
-King 2.5 Pintop
-3” coils
-Front diff cover
Thuren
-Rear track bar
-Rear sway bar links
-King steering damper

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by olyelr » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:14 pm

The rear is where i would think it would get real sketchy.
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by IIIOIISTER » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:22 pm

olyelr wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:14 pm
The rear is where i would think it would get real sketchy.
Ya, I don't think the rear shock mounting positions would accommodate anything wider than the current King 2.5s.
'17 Power Wagon
35" Yokohama Geolander G003
Carli
-King 2.5 Pintop
-3” coils
-Front diff cover
Thuren
-Rear track bar
-Rear sway bar links
-King steering damper

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by Colibri » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:49 am

Carli has a cantilever system for the rear that uses 3.0’s, could possibly go even bigger. It’s likely pretty spendy though

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:17 pm

I've kicked around the idea of making a front setup for these trucks. It's going to be a weld-in kit but it's pretty straightforward. The rear should be done with a bed cage, you're not sticking any sizable shock through the frame in the stock location. And a $15,000 cantilever setup for the rear, plus the cost of the shocks? Youch.

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:44 pm

Colibri wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:49 am
Carli has a cantilever system for the rear that uses 3.0’s, could possibly go even bigger. It’s likely pretty spendy though
I never understand Carli's special suspension kits. They make zero sense. Why pay $30,000 for a front coilover kit if they're just using 3.0's? Screw that, put some 4.5's in there. Rear cantilever setup for $15,000 to only run 3.0's? Why? Put some 4.0's in there. It's just a sticker package if you're not going big for that cost. I've ridden in garage built trucks that cost 1/8 what the Carli kits do and will outrun the hell out of them all day long.

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by Colibri » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:29 pm

Holy shit, are those actual prices???? If so, that’s completely insane.

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DamageWagon
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:55 pm

Colibri wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:29 pm
Holy shit, are those actual prices???? If so, that’s completely insane.
From what I've heard, yes. Im curious to ask Chris what he paid for his cantilever but I believe that is a Thuren kit and I imagine he got a deal on it lol

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by Rodeoflyer » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:27 pm

You can really break shit with properly valved 2.5's. Why would you need more? Now a cantilever setup, that's quite different as you're adding travel but write a blank check.

I know I can break my truck with the current 2.5 stage 5's. I haven't attempted it yet but it's really tempting.

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by IIIOIISTER » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:04 pm

Rodeoflyer wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:27 pm
You can really break shit with properly valved 2.5's. Why would you need more?
Because in 'Murica we dream big! :box:
'17 Power Wagon
35" Yokohama Geolander G003
Carli
-King 2.5 Pintop
-3” coils
-Front diff cover
Thuren
-Rear track bar
-Rear sway bar links
-King steering damper

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:18 pm

Rodeoflyer wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:27 pm
You can really break shit with properly valved 2.5's. Why would you need more? Now a cantilever setup, that's quite different as you're adding travel but write a blank check.

I know I can break my truck with the current 2.5 stage 5's. I haven't attempted it yet but it's really tempting.
Once you ride in a 3.0 truck you won't want 2.5's. Once you ride in a 4.5 truck you'll want a race truck. Think of hitting parking block sized bumps at 45-60mlh and not knowing you hit them. Or pounding race track whoops at 80+mph.

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by coder » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:40 pm

For what a PW was intended for rocks, sand, rough trails, towing, hauling King 2.5's are an ideal choice without breaking the bank.

You can just purchase/install Carli King 2.5 shocks without any other upgrades and add other components later as desired. I can do 45-50 mph in mine down unmaintainded dirt roads all day long.

If you really want to go fast off road your better off looking at a lighter platform than a Ram 2500.

Carli's 2.5 Hemi valving was tuned with Hemi truck and IMO is the way to go.
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Mopar HD Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by ramv » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:30 pm

What's the advantage to Carli versus Thuren?

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by coder » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:42 pm

ramv wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:30 pm
What's the advantage to Carli versus Thuren?
Here's my perspective, I*'ll try to stick to the facts and leave brand loyalty bloviating out.

Simalatries:
- High quality suspension components
- Significant R&D time invested in components/system design
- Use industry leading shocks King, Fox, Bilstein, etc.
- Excellent reputation in the 3/4-1 ton Ram truck community

Differences:
[Carli]
- Carli is a small business
- The product-line is centered around suspension systems, components can be interchanged/upgraded as needed
- Offers various levels of shock packages with proprietary tuning , 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5 etc.
- Custom tuning is possible
- Shock tuning feel is controlled like a sports car
- Different shock tunings for Hemi and Diesel trucks

[Thuren]
- Thuren is a 1 man shop
- The product-line is centered around suspension and fabrication components, you can roll your own suspension system
- Offers various levels of shock tuning for same shocks
- Custom tuning is possible
- Shock tuning feel varies by level but in general is more compliant than Carli
- All shock tuning is based on a Diesel truck
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Mopar HD Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by MikeKey » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:50 pm

coder wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:42 pm

[Carli]
- Different shock tunings for Hemi and Diesel trucks

[Thuren]
- All shock tuning is based on a Diesel truck
Really? Is that true? That's surprising. But, would line up with some of the other things I've heard. And gives me pause. :popcorn:
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by Reloaderguy » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:34 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:50 pm
coder wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:42 pm

[Carli]
- Different shock tunings for Hemi and Diesel trucks

[Thuren]
- All shock tuning is based on a Diesel truck
Really? Is that true? That's surprising. But, would line up with some of the other things I've heard. And gives me pause. :popcorn:
Kind of. Hemi tuned Kings have reduced valving. Stage 3 Hemi is a Stage 2 diesel.
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by ramv » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:31 pm

If you swap to his springs, isn't the only difference between the Hemi and the CTD the weight? If so, shouldn't the lighter valving be adequate? Especially with the pig of a winch (M15) up front on the PW?

Edit: Does torque application affect valving? Just trying to work through this in my mind. I could see potentially impacting but not sure to the point in a 7k lb+ truck (that is loaded differently depending on day to day us) that it would be noticeable in the tune?

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by coder » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:50 am

ramv wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:31 pm
If you swap to his springs, isn't the only difference between the Hemi and the CTD the weight? If so, shouldn't the lighter valving be adequate? Especially with the pig of a winch (M15) up front on the PW?

Edit: Does torque application affect valving? Just trying to work through this in my mind. I could see potentially impacting but not sure to the point in a 7k lb+ truck (that is loaded differently depending on day to day us) that it would be noticeable in the tune?
Here are my thoughts others please chime in...

If you swap to his springs, isn't the only difference between the Hemi and the CTD the weight? If so, shouldn't the lighter valving be adequate? Especially with the pig of a winch (M15) up front on the PW? - I think the weight is the primary difference, ideally, the shock valving should be designed to work in conjunction with a specific set of springs. Carli uses different Hemi and diesel springs, Thuren uses diesel springs for everything.

Does torque application affect valving? - Not sure what you mean, if you are referring to engine torque it might effect the rear shock valving but I don't know for sure.
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Mopar HD Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by MikeKey » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:00 pm

coder wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:50 am
- I think the weight is the primary difference, ideally, the shock valving should be designed to work in conjunction with a specific set of springs. Carli uses different Hemi and diesel springs, Thuren uses diesel springs for everything.
Whoa, wait, Thuren's website lists Hemi & Diesel springs separately. Under the impression these are two different springs, not the same spring. :popcorn:

https://www.thurenfabrication.com/produ ... coils.html
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by RPS1030 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:44 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:00 pm
coder wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:50 am
- I think the weight is the primary difference, ideally, the shock valving should be designed to work in conjunction with a specific set of springs. Carli uses different Hemi and diesel springs, Thuren uses diesel springs for everything.
Whoa, wait, Thuren's website lists Hemi & Diesel springs separately. Under the impression these are two different springs, not the same spring. :popcorn:

https://www.thurenfabrication.com/produ ... coils.html
I'm getting the impression coder is talking about the 3rd gen trucks and hasn't been up to date on what Thuren is doing with the newer PWs/Hemis
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by MikeKey » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:00 pm

That's usually the case with 3rd gen guys. Always jumping into the 4th gen discussion and confusing everyone. :thppt: Happens on FB all the time.
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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by ramv » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:17 pm

coder wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:50 am

Here are my thoughts others please chime in...

If you swap to his springs, isn't the only difference between the Hemi and the CTD the weight? If so, shouldn't the lighter valving be adequate? Especially with the pig of a winch (M15) up front on the PW? - I think the weight is the primary difference, ideally, the shock valving should be designed to work in conjunction with a specific set of springs. Carli uses different Hemi and diesel springs, Thuren uses diesel springs for everything.

Does torque application affect valving? - Not sure what you mean, if you are referring to engine torque it might effect the rear shock valving but I don't know for sure.
I thought Thuren had two different springs? He lists different gas/diesel springs.

Yes on torque. Just thinking how the truck applies torque may impact valving. From my dirt bike days, I know height of the rider and engine size/power band impacted how the tuners tuned the shock, not just weight.

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by Rodeoflyer » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:39 pm

Every day I get in in my truck in the morning and think, will this be the day I get major air? It just keeps sucking everything up. Maybe because I drive on the interstate to get to work?

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by IIIOIISTER » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:32 am

Rodeoflyer wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:39 pm
Every day I get in in my truck in the morning and think, will this be the day I get major air? It just keeps sucking everything up. Maybe because I drive on the interstate to get to work?
Well...you don't "have" to take the exit ramp to get off you know.
'17 Power Wagon
35" Yokohama Geolander G003
Carli
-King 2.5 Pintop
-3” coils
-Front diff cover
Thuren
-Rear track bar
-Rear sway bar links
-King steering damper

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Re: Coil bucket/shock mounts mod

Post by coder » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:42 pm

MikeKey wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:00 pm
coder wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:50 am
- I think the weight is the primary difference, ideally, the shock valving should be designed to work in conjunction with a specific set of springs. Carli uses different Hemi and diesel springs, Thuren uses diesel springs for everything.
Whoa, wait, Thuren's website lists Hemi & Diesel springs separately. Under the impression these are two different springs, not the same spring. :popcorn:

https://www.thurenfabrication.com/produ ... coils.html
They are the same springs Thuren just adds 1" to the lift measurement (because the Hemi is lighter) to his diesel springs and calls them Hemi springs. Carli springs are actually different and offer the same height lift for both diesel and Hemi.
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Mopar HD Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass

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