Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

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Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Hammerballs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:59 am

So I know the recommended off-set for running 37s is +18 to +25mm. I know you can use the OEM wheels with minimal rubbing after a little trimming.

Problem is I want black wheels when I make the move to 37s but I am very much a function first, looks second person. That being said, I still want my $50k truck to look good.

First, why exactly are OE wheels typically superior? Forged? I get that on stock size tires they are considered perfectly spaced for that vehicle according to the designers. You kind of lose that once you up size though right? Also, isn't there something special about the PW wheels that you don't typically get on aftermarket wheels in general?

Second, what, if any, aftermarket wheels would people consider to be on par or better than OE wheels? Why?

Third, I like beadlocks like the Hutchinson Rock Monsters but my understanding is I would never want them if I use my truck as a daily driver. Also, my understanding is balancing for daily driving can be an issue.

Thanks. I'm an enginerd and I definitely fall into the paralysis by analysis black hole over stuff like this. I like to build things right the first time.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Colibri » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:23 am

I have two vehicles on hutchinsons, a jeep tj and my 3rd gen power wagon. Both pull daily driver duty and have for years with no issues. They are DOT approved, very strong, and lock inner and outer beads.

I have another jeep on spyderlock wheels and a full sized van on trailready Beadlocks. While neither of those are DOT approved, I've never had any issues, no loose bolts etc. Cheap or diy Beadlocks can give trouble but a quality wheel is virtually maintenance free.

Most aftermarket wheels are weaker than stock, but forged wheels aren't absolutely necessary. Pressure cast wheels can be just as strong. If you like the hutchinsons and want black wheels and like extra functionality the rock monsters make a lot of sense.

The only real downside of running Beadlocks is traditional tire shops won't mount or balance them. An off-road shop will, or you can mount them yourself pretty easily. I run balance beads and have for years, while others I know don't balance at all and their truck is smooth as silk down the highway.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Hammerballs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:09 am

Thanks Colibri. I have read mixed reviews about Balance Beads. Things like excessive heat build up and adding the weight at the outer circumference, especially on oversized tires like 37s, instead of closer to the center. I suppose balance beads would be better at adjusting for tire ware though right?

The Hutchinson's seem like they would be perfect for 37s on my 16'. If I remember correctly they are +27mm off-set.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by olyelr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:04 pm

I talked with a fella running the Hutchinson Rock Monster beadlock wheels on his 2016 PW. Had a set of 37" KM2's on them, mounted them himself, had no balancing devices at all (weights, balance beads etc.) and claimed they road down the road true as can be with no issues at all. They are pricey, but you get what you pay for. Sure, most tire shops wont mount tires on them, but the good thing is you can mount them yourself. And if balancing was needed, then beads would be another do it yourself way.
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by olyelr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Hammerballs wrote:Thanks Colibri. I have read mixed reviews about Balance Beads. Things like excessive heat build up and adding the weight at the outer circumference, especially on oversized tires like 37s, instead of closer to the center. I suppose balance beads would be better at adjusting for tire ware though right?

The Hutchinson's seem like they would be perfect for 37s on my 16'. If I remember correctly they are +27mm off-set.

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They have two wheels available for our trucks. Both are 8.5" wide and one has 4.5" backspacing and one has 5.28" backspacing. The 5.28" backspace would be a much better fit in my opinion (wont stick out so damn far). They would stick out about 1.25" further than the stock wheels. Perfecto.
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by rkgzx9leftcoast » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:21 pm

I have run 37s on the stock wheels, and now I have Method Standards. 2016 PW . The stock wheels are pretty close to 6" Backspace, and Forged, Im pretty sure the 2107 wheel is cast ??

The Methods I got are about the only ones in a 17 that real close +18 or 5.75 backspace. I posted pics the other day of the difference in backspace. The methods moved the wheel/tire out about 1/2 to 3/4 inch . I have Nitto Ridge Grapplers and had no real rubbing issues before or now ( had a slight rub on the control arm at full lock before) moving the rim out seems to have ended that. Also with 17 inch aftermarket (and stock for that matter) if you have them balanced make sure the shop knows where to put weight because of interference with brake calipers, if in the wrong place they will get knocked off.... if doing tires and wheels can go to 18"...more choices in 5.75 backspace and wont lose too much sidewall for ride.

On rims it depends upon what you want to do with them, lots of guys running a quality cast wheel like a Method or Raceline off road with good luck. Unless you are jumping your truck or hit a ditch doing 50 or something.. most will hold up.

Other Bead locks are Trail ready and innov8 , Trail Ready`s are Cast, but made here in USA and with Ring makes them pretty strong, Innov8 are Forged and and machined but $$$ Most of the Balance issue is the Tire, get a really good American made tire like a Toyo M/T or R/T and its pretty easy to get good results. I would put my Ridge Grapplers close to the Toyo`s, but next Time I may do Toyos. I know a few people running Bead locks and Toyos with now weight or beads and say they ride smooth.

I like the Idea of a Forged wheel myself, but I didnt want to spend $6 to $800 a wheel for it in an aftermarket one. The stock wheels will hold a 12.50 /37 pretty easy, just depends upon if you like the look or not......
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by rkgzx9leftcoast » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:25 pm

also....the stock wheels have a rib on the inside that helps hold the bead in place, 2016 and Prior, not sure on 2017. Just FYI I really like the quality of my Methods...
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:41 pm

I've stayed away from forged wheels due to my good experiences with cast ones. My thought is that if you're running a good cast wheel, anything that's going to kill that wheel is probably going to kill a forged wheel too. I've only lost one wheel, going about 45mph and struck a big pointed rock in the trail. It was a fairly cheap cast one, hit right in the weak spot, but it didn't break. Image

Cast vs forged is one concern. Beadlock vs non beadlock is a different concern.

Probably the craziest I've run this tire/wheel combo is with the camper on, tires at 18psi, crawling around Moab. Or at 20psi running through North Rim at 35-50mph through rocky trails with hard turns. I think a good tire with a stiff sidewalk will take you a long way to keeping the bead seated.

My next wheels will either be factory wagon wheels or Hutchinson beadlocks. Probably takeoffs since it's $300 versus $2000.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by RustyPW » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:02 pm

I read this thread right after he posted it. I decided to wait until others have posted because of the opinions of some.

I've have run both cast and forged rims over the years. I've busted both. Cast rims just crack, split, and explode. Forged rims will bend before breaking. I've beat forged rims back into shape and continue on. Cast rims, I just junk them. The rims I have now are Centerline rotary forged. 17x9, with 5.25 backspacing. I've beat on these rims for 7 years. Have not bent or cracked one yet. Have lots of gouges in them. The 5.25 backspacing is about perfect for a PW.

Centerline Wheels are no longer in business. Another company has bought the name and are marketing cast rims under the Centerline name. :angry:
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Reloaderguy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:24 pm

I had Centerline forged aluminum wheels that cracked between the lugs. As soon as I start desert racing or move to Canada I'll care more. Until then, the cast wheels I have work just fine and have a better offset than factory.
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Hammerballs » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:55 pm

Thanks to all for the input. Starting to like the idea of the Hutchinson's again except the $$$. I will pay for quality and function usually though. For aftermarket non-beadlocks, are there others that have the similar inner bead lip thing that supposedly our stock wheels have? When I was surfing the web I found Fuel and Moto Metal with some good off-sets of +18 to +20mm. I believe I am correct on our lug pattern as 8 on 165.1 and our bore is 125.5mm? How about weight? How much difference roughly is there between stock wheels and a lot of aftermarket options? Already adding a way heavier tire if you go to a burly 37. Is that worth worrying about?

Too bad about Centerline. I had found their Wilderness model that I thought was sharp. It had a +32mm off-set and I figured if stock off-set works then those would work pretty good. Oh well.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:18 pm

I'm not too sold on the Wagon almost-beadlock lip idea. All wheels that I've seen have that lip, but I believe the Wagon wheels have a taller one. At least the older forged Alcoa ones that came on 3rd gens are rumored to.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by FirerescuePW » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:29 pm

They do. I still run the Wagon wheels that came on my '05. I think '05 was the last (only) year for USA made PW wheels by Alcoa? Maybe 1 more year?

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by nts007 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:03 pm

I have 09 pw wheels that have alcoa stamped on them. My 06 had the same ones. There is a distinctive bead retention lip on the pw wheels. Now it's not a bead lock but it does work at much lower pressure than a normal tire/wheel can go. I believe 18psi is the factory minimum recommendation that was in the owners manual. I still have the manual and will see if I can find it. The pw manual also walks you through the steps for deeper water crossing.......
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by MikeKey » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:18 pm

nts007 wrote:I have 09 pw wheels that have alcoa stamped on them. My 06 had the same ones. There is a distinctive bead retention lip on the pw wheels. Now it's not a bead lock but it does work at much lower pressure than a normal tire/wheel can go. I believe 18psi is the factory minimum recommendation that was in the owners manual. I still have the manual and will see if I can find it. The pw manual also walks you through the steps for deeper water crossing.......
I found this mention in mine
2015-RAM_15_25_35-OM-4th_pdf__page_532_of_865_.jpg
There used to be a picture here on the site showing the lip, but it's lost to shitbucket forever.
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Hammerballs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:12 am

So none of these aftermarket wheels that claim to be off-road wheels have this same bead retention? I would like to see what our wheels look like. Has to be pics from guys who have swapped wheels/tires. How big of a lip is it?

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:21 am

I believe every wheel has that lip. The lip itself is standard. I presume to help keep the outside bead of any tire from popping off at low pressures and maybe to help installation so only one bead needs seating. My cheap cast wheels have that lip. I think what makes the Wagon wheels special is that that lip is a lot bigger or steeper.

I'm no expert,I could be totally wrong.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:24 am

Image

Yeah, I'm assuming the Wagon wheels just have a much more pronounced lip. Which is awesome for a stock wheel.

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by gtomike60 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:59 am

DamageWagon wrote:Image

Yeah, I'm assuming the Wagon wheels just have a much more pronounced lip. Which is awesome for a stock wheel.
The factory wheels have that lip on the inside as well.
Hummer H2 wheels are made the same way,but are 1/2 inch wider with 5.28 offset.Center bore is smaller,though,so they need to be machined to the bigger RAM size.I've had a set on mine for 2 years now
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by RustyPW » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 am

Reloaderguy wrote:I had Centerline forged aluminum wheels that cracked between the lugs. As soon as I start desert racing or move to Canada I'll care more. Until then, the cast wheels I have work just fine and have a better offset than factory.
The way you feel about forged and Centerline is the same as me for all cast wheels. I never had too many cast rims last off-road. I've had good luck with 3 sets of forged rims. The factory forged Alcoa, and 2 sets of Centerlines.

Question. If forged rims are not that great. How come the PW has them as stock?
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:17 am

RustyPW wrote:
Reloaderguy wrote:I had Centerline forged aluminum wheels that cracked between the lugs. As soon as I start desert racing or move to Canada I'll care more. Until then, the cast wheels I have work just fine and have a better offset than factory.
The way you feel about forged and Centerline is the same as me for all cast wheels. I never had too many cast rims last off-road. I've had good luck with 3 sets of forged rims. The factory forged Alcoa, and 2 sets of Centerlines.

Question. If forged rims are not that great. How come the PW has them as stock?
Those are your words, not mine. Nothing is perfect and good enough is, well, good enough. I'm not racing, but if I were, cast wouldn't be good enough. I'm not racing though. With that said, if strength were that much of a concern I'd skip right over traditional forged wheels and go straight to beedlocks.

Here is a '16 forged PW wheel. I sold the wheels...for cash money...because the offset is too narrow for larger tires.

Image
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by MikeKey » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:32 am

Reloaderguy wrote:
Here is a '16 forged PW wheel. I sold the wheels...for cash money...because the offset is too narrow for larger tires.

Image
Nah, it's fine dude. And you still trimmed. I have less rubbing than you've reported in your own build thread. Sway bar only. :poke:
Reloaderguy wrote: A little trimming and they fit just fine.
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by DamageWagon » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:23 am

That lip looks identical to the one on my cheapo wheels. Unless I'm missing more details of what makes the PW wheels specisl

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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by coder » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:24 am

RustyPW wrote:I read this thread right after he posted it. I decided to wait until others have posted because of the opinions of some.

I've have run both cast and forged rims over the years. I've busted both. Cast rims just crack, split, and explode. Forged rims will bend before breaking. I've beat forged rims back into shape and continue on. Cast rims, I just junk them.
x2, new PW's still have forged wheels, I too have seen casts wheels crack, shatter and break where forged wheels bend and can be bent back.

An example, I when over a steep dry waterfall in Death Valley, stupid me I got lazy and didn't get out to look first, went down at the wrong angle and smashed my wheel right into a large boulder.

It sounded like I ripped my front end off, the alignment was way off (castor was 2.5 degrees off on driver's side) and I was shocked when all I saw was a modestly bend lip on the wheel, I am a believer in forged wheels.
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Re: Wheels: OEM vs Aftermarket

Post by Reloaderguy » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:14 am

MikeKey wrote:
Reloaderguy wrote:
Here is a '16 forged PW wheel. I sold the wheels...for cash money...because the offset is too narrow for larger tires.

Image
Nah, it's fine dude. And you still trimmed. I have less rubbing than you've reported in your own build thread. Sway bar only. :poke:
Reloaderguy wrote: A little trimming and they fit just fine.
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I have a 9" wide wheel, not 8". The stock wheels have too much offset for the width with 37" tires which is why you're rubbing the sway bar. I have enough room for 14" wide tires after trimming without any suspension contact.
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