Front Diff Blow Up

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chrisjameswagner
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Front Diff Blow Up

Post by chrisjameswagner » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:41 pm

Driving to work this AM at about 35mph trucks comes to a screeching halt. I try to move forward but no, just binding and noise. Shift to reverse, same thing. Get our of truck to see what up and see about a 15 foot double skid but no glaring issues under the truck. Get back in try again with same result. Shift the transfer case to low, high, neutral, all good. Leave the transfer case in high and try to move forward - no good; backwards enough movement to get me off the road but lots of grinding noises and strained movement. Have flat towed to dealer who says front diff needs to be rebuilt. 79.8K miles. Thoughts on what could cause that? Seems way to early for that to occur.
2012 - Aluminess sliders, Century High C Shell, Wilderness Rack, Rigid D2's on front bar, sleeping and storage platform, Carli High Clearance Arms, springs, control arm, track bar, Bilstein 7100's, Day star rear shackles, 35" Cooper ST MAXX., Front bumper and under carriage camera set up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:10 pm

Driving a modern vehicle long enough to even see a diff blow up seems like a stretch. They should go what a million miles. Sounds like a defective unit. Probably was bad from the start, just a little off. I assume it had oil and not water in it however.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by coder » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Have you had a front pinion seal leak fixed in the past if it was not done right it could have caused some premature bearing wear?
If you want an alternative to the dealer for repairs J&S Gear Co. is excellent the shops in Huntington Beach.

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by RustyPW » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Any updates on this?
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by chrisjameswagner » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:44 pm

coder wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:35 pm
Have you had a front pinion seal leak fixed in the past if it was not done right it could have caused some premature bearing wear?
If you want an alternative to the dealer for repairs J&S Gear Co. is excellent the shops in Huntington Beach.

http://www.jandsgear.com/
Yes, I did have the dealer fix a weap in the past. For those following along, things have progressed for the worse. drained the transfer case to find black liquid... Seems u joints also may be bad. I'm thinking dealer had no idea what caused my initial issue and have guessed their way along. Starting to get expensive and I'm thinking we'll be headed to arbitration over this.
2012 - Aluminess sliders, Century High C Shell, Wilderness Rack, Rigid D2's on front bar, sleeping and storage platform, Carli High Clearance Arms, springs, control arm, track bar, Bilstein 7100's, Day star rear shackles, 35" Cooper ST MAXX., Front bumper and under carriage camera set up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:43 pm

This is sounding like a mess.........
2018 Flame Red, Moon Roof, Dual Alternators, Ram Boxes sadly Ram ran out of, Luxo Package with 8.4 UConnect, Enter and Go with remote start, Auto Wipers and Lights. Added missing skids and White Knuckle sliders. 35" BFG KM3s. Procal and Warn wireless remote for winch.

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by RustyPW » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:30 pm

FordyceCreekTrail wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:43 pm
This is sounding like a mess.........
Train wreck.
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Mods to the PW; Nerffed Mopar RockRails, Wheel Well Liners, Bushwacker Pocket Fender Flairs, Garvmin dezl 560LMT GPS, Power Wagon Winch Kit, Line X Ultra Bed Liner, PIAA Headlight Bulbs, PIAA 580 Driving Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 Fog Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 ATP Off-Road Lights (135 watt), Locker Bypass, Modifed Rockcrusher Diff Covers, Mopar Utility Bed Rails and Tool Box, Warn Winch Wireless Remote Control, "el-cheapo" Inclinometer, Airaid CAI, Winch TPS Bypass, 35" Toyo's, Mopar Spare Tire Lock, 'T' Steering Linkage, Modifed PSC Steering Brace, P3 Brake Controller, Modifed Fusion "mall crawler" rear bumper , PIAA 1500 Back-Up Lights, 1Ton HEMI Tranny Cooler, Leer 100XR Bed Cap, Factory Tow Mirrors, CenterLine Rims 17x9-5.25 BS, Mag-Hytec Tranny Pan, AutoMeter Gauges, PSC Extreme Hydro Assist Steering, Carli G2 Track Bar, Carli Ball-Joints, Dynatrac FreeSpin Hubs, Snorkel, RCV Axles, EBC Pads & Rotors, Aluminess Front Bumper, 14,000 lb Pul-Pal, 60" Extreme Hi-lift Jack, and more riggin' equipment, Carli Long Travel Air Bags, Bilstein 7100 Shocks - Carli Valving, Carli Control Arms, Thuren 3" SoftRide Springs, Thuren Rear Shackles, MagnaFlow Muffler, Crown Stainless Brake Lines, MORE STUFF COMIN'.

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by chrisjameswagner » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:53 pm

Powertrain wreck more like it.

$6400 is the tally.

I've asked Chrysler to get involved and that's been going on its third week now.

None of the parts should have failed. Mild towing, mild offroading, 80K miles, all maintenance done at appropriate intervals.

Unfortunately not knowledgeable enough to know if dealer f'ing me but knowledgeable enough to know they can and will...
and most likely did.

Hoping Chrysler can come through with some relief.
2012 - Aluminess sliders, Century High C Shell, Wilderness Rack, Rigid D2's on front bar, sleeping and storage platform, Carli High Clearance Arms, springs, control arm, track bar, Bilstein 7100's, Day star rear shackles, 35" Cooper ST MAXX., Front bumper and under carriage camera set up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by cb1987 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:02 pm

if the dealer had the pinion nut off at some point in time then its completely plausible they pooched the job which is what it kind of sounds like.. even though all they would of needed to do was mark the nut and reinstall it back to original position or a fraction tighter. this is why a dealer will never touch my truck unless the engine blows up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by chrisjameswagner » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:53 am

cb1987 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:02 pm
if the dealer had the pinion nut off at some point in time then its completely plausible they pooched the job which is what it kind of sounds like.. even though all they would of needed to do was mark the nut and reinstall it back to original position or a fraction tighter. this is why a dealer will never touch my truck unless the engine blows up
Right and in another 10-20K miles or less, I'll get to see if the f'd it up again...
2012 - Aluminess sliders, Century High C Shell, Wilderness Rack, Rigid D2's on front bar, sleeping and storage platform, Carli High Clearance Arms, springs, control arm, track bar, Bilstein 7100's, Day star rear shackles, 35" Cooper ST MAXX., Front bumper and under carriage camera set up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by 13powerwagon » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:06 am

I have had my front pinion seal on my 13 replaced 3 times under warranty. Rear leaked once and they replaced that seal but screwed up the rearend in the process so that got replaced under warrnaty as well. Apparently the dealerships have issues fixing things right the first time so it is not unlikely that they messed up your front dif when they replaced the seal.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by NickTF » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:00 pm

It would take a serious leak for me to risk a half ass dealer tech I didn't know doing work like that. Sometimes it's just easier to add some fluid. IN a perfect world no one should be having these problems but in today's auto dealerships you really run a risk of getting very poor service that will ruin the experience of vehicle ownership.

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by Ducky's Dad » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:09 pm

Last time I asked, the dealer near me had sold exactly one PW in 13 years (not mine). Think their techs know anything about PWs?

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:36 pm

There's only one way to properly fix a leaking pinion seal. I suspect Ram doesn't authorize under warranty the proper way. Over tightening the pinion nut can cause the pinion to seize up.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by 13powerwagon » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:46 pm

Reloaderguy wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:36 pm
There's only one way to properly fix a leaking pinion seal. I suspect Ram doesn't authorize under warranty the proper way. Over tightening the pinion nut can cause the pinion to seize up.
Im sure you are right on with that statement. I dont know about the OP but when I told the service guy mine was leaking he said they would take it back and bang another seal in. They had it all of 20 minutes.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:18 pm

13powerwagon wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:46 pm
Reloaderguy wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:36 pm
There's only one way to properly fix a leaking pinion seal. I suspect Ram doesn't authorize under warranty the proper way. Over tightening the pinion nut can cause the pinion to seize up.
Im sure you are right on with that statement. I dont know about the OP but when I told the service guy mine was leaking he said they would take it back and bang another seal in. They had it all of 20 minutes.
They obviously just zipped off the nut, pried out the pinion seal, put in a new seal, and then retightened the nut. That works sometimes, I've done it before. There's no way to measure the pinion preload doing it that way though. I think a lot of shops tighten the nut and then add some rotation to crush the sleeve some more. Not all sleeves crush uniformly so they may add too much preload and seize up the bearing.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by chrisjameswagner » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:29 pm

Appreciate the commentary guys. I can learn something from that. FCA Care is now saying they probably cant cover due to the Carli aftermarket parts (springs, control arms). I am curious if that may have something to do with the situation via premature wear...

I'm seriously thinking its time to sell...
2012 - Aluminess sliders, Century High C Shell, Wilderness Rack, Rigid D2's on front bar, sleeping and storage platform, Carli High Clearance Arms, springs, control arm, track bar, Bilstein 7100's, Day star rear shackles, 35" Cooper ST MAXX., Front bumper and under carriage camera set up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by 13powerwagon » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:40 pm

Yeah, I think thats exactly what happened. 3 leaks later they finally put some type of sealant in there with the seal and it has been leak free for 20k but I am sure it will leak again and ill have to have it fixed on my dime this time.

To the OP, that sounds like a bunch of BS, control arms and springs should have no impact on the internals of the front dif. Most likely, as reloaderguy said, they did not fix it right and it caused the issue you are having.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by Low_Sky » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:13 pm

chrisjameswagner wrote:Appreciate the commentary guys. I can learn something from that. FCA Care is now saying they probably cant cover due to the Carli aftermarket parts (springs, control arms). I am curious if that may have something to do with the situation via premature wear...

I'm seriously thinking its time to sell...
That’s a load of BS, but it’s going to be a fight if they’re trying to play that game.


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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by Reloaderguy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:25 pm

chrisjameswagner wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:29 pm
Appreciate the commentary guys. I can learn something from that. FCA Care is now saying they probably cant cover due to the Carli aftermarket parts (springs, control arms). I am curious if that may have something to do with the situation via premature wear...

I'm seriously thinking its time to sell...
Have it towed to an axle shop so it can be fixed right. Your dealer is tired of you and is subtly acknowledging they are incapable of remedying their damage and unwilling to make it right. FCA is never going to warranty the repair now that the dealer has turned on you; not stock, not modified, not ever. Do you like your truck? If yes, pay a non dealer to fix it. If no, sell and buy a different brand. I'm sorry but you're now on your own.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by FordyceCreekTrail » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:53 am

Differentials are fairly tricky. Even many pros send them out to an expert. Not impossible to build, but like a transmission or engine internals not something you want to get wrong. Pinon seals are a common issue. My Nissan Titan had to have them replaced at 160K and 210K I believe. A lift causing a differential failure is complete BS. Not only is this a heavy duty truck, but explain to me the mechanics of that. Nissan did the same thing to me on an Xterra, drove it up a small hill and bam, the rear diff that was under engineered exploded. By the time we went to Arbitration they were installing diffs with double the spider gears, but insisted my lift was the cause of the failure.
2018 Flame Red, Moon Roof, Dual Alternators, Ram Boxes sadly Ram ran out of, Luxo Package with 8.4 UConnect, Enter and Go with remote start, Auto Wipers and Lights. Added missing skids and White Knuckle sliders. 35" BFG KM3s. Procal and Warn wireless remote for winch.

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by chrisjameswagner » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:17 am

Supposedly the Carli arms "move the front axle 2" forward".

Seems that would change some of the geometry in the diff as the attaching driveline distance is now changed - yes/no?
2012 - Aluminess sliders, Century High C Shell, Wilderness Rack, Rigid D2's on front bar, sleeping and storage platform, Carli High Clearance Arms, springs, control arm, track bar, Bilstein 7100's, Day star rear shackles, 35" Cooper ST MAXX., Front bumper and under carriage camera set up

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:59 am

chrisjameswagner wrote:Supposedly the Carli arms "move the front axle 2" forward".

Seems that would change some of the geometry in the diff as the attaching driveline distance is now changed - yes/no?
On 03-13 trucks the max the front axle can move forward should be 5/8”. Thuren arms move the axle 1/2”. This will have no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand. If it was the driveshaft wearing out there would be a different discussion involving the condition of the joints, but otherwise no, zero effect on bearing load.

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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by 13powerwagon » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:16 pm

The front drive shaft is able to extend and retract to compensate for the slight forward movement of the front axle. Any time you are towing the front end is in a different position than it is at normal ride height. So if the dealer argument was true, anyone who towed or hauled heavy would have front diff problems as well.
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Re: Front Diff Blow Up

Post by Bill2014 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:48 pm

13powerwagon wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:16 pm
The front drive shaft is able to extend and retract to compensate for the slight forward movement of the front axle. Any time you are towing the front end is in a different position than it is at normal ride height. So if the dealer argument was true, anyone who towed or hauled heavy would have front diff problems as well.
Hmmmm :o

I agree - the forward movement is not an issue. However, any pinion angle change associated with a lift could add to the bearing stress.

If you had a seal replacement done on the diff - and then it failed - the work was not done correctly... End of story!
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