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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:35 pm

I'd definitely rule out bent rim from an impact, unless it's defective from the factory, nothing is impossible I suppose.

Fwiw, the shops haven't said they can't do it. There's a small local shop that has balanced all my tires in the past, race tires to semi tires, and always had good results from them. They did these 3x now, spinning the tire on the rim trying to eliminate or minimize this persistent shake. I decided to have a different shop give it a go (Americas Tire) and got the same results. I'm leaning toward a tire being a little out of round. I'm planning to go out of town camping for the weekend, going to try swapping front to rear one more time tonight and see what happens.


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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby nts007 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:51 pm

I'm not saying though that a bad tire isn't possible. It's just not as common as some tire shops will make you believe. Tire build quality is pretty good these days. I've had a set of general grabber red letter tires that all 4 took exactly 4oz to balance on exactly the same place on each tire. And having a bunch of wheel weights on tires and rims like ours hurts nothing. Just aesthetics. Is your vibration a fast resonance type? Does it go and come at different speed? A tire one will start and increase constantly as speed increases. A driveline vibration will start and get worse or disappear at higher speed. So many moving parts.....really curious to find out though. I'd really be Leary about what the shops version of balanced is. For example if you get it balanced say within 1% at 10mph that's 6% variance at 60mph. And due to the mass of our tires we tend to be on the Higher side of the percentage. A good shop can balance to 0.1 to 0.3% if they want to. And keep in mind balancing a 24-28" race car tire is far more forgiving to balance with a 0.3% error due to far far less centrifugal force due to mass and size.
Sorry I'm droning on lol. I've had many many arguments with tire shops and it always ends up being either a inexperienced operator or a cheap ass machine that is calibrated to 0.6 or greater error. Cheap machines that work fine for the majority. Again not saying your situation or shops are like that. Hope you get it figured. Keep us posted
08 ctd--mini max--thuren 3" coils and shackles--4.56 gears and lockers in pw axles--some lights--afe intake system--bd super b turbo--Banks w/m Injection--Dynatrac Balljoints--bilstein 7100s--37" Cooper ST-Maxx--DOR Long arms--Carli track bar--Manual T-case swap--Full PW Under armor--PSC Hydro Assist
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby DamageWagon » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:57 pm

What's your tire pressure? Are all your lug nuts tight?

nts is on the ball again with nailing down which axle and what rpm range and characteristics it has. It might take a few weeks of feeling different terrains but you can usually nail exactly which part is causing the problem. Swapping tires between axles is a great start.


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Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:42 pm

nts007 wrote:I'm not saying though that a bad tire isn't possible. It's just not as common as some tire shops will make you believe. Tire build quality is pretty good these days. I've had a set of general grabber red letter tires that all 4 took exactly 4oz to balance on exactly the same place on each tire. And having a bunch of wheel weights on tires and rims like ours hurts nothing. Just aesthetics. Is your vibration a fast resonance type? Does it go and come at different speed? A tire one will start and increase constantly as speed increases. A driveline vibration will start and get worse or disappear at higher speed. So many moving parts.....really curious to find out though. I'd really be Leary about what the shops version of balanced is. For example if you get it balanced say within 1% at 10mph that's 6% variance at 60mph. And due to the mass of our tires we tend to be on the Higher side of the percentage. A good shop can balance to 0.1 to 0.3% if they want to. And keep in mind balancing a 24-28" race car tire is far more forgiving to balance with a 0.3% error due to far far less centrifugal force due to mass and size.
Sorry I'm droning on lol. I've had many many arguments with tire shops and it always ends up being either a inexperienced operator or a cheap ass machine that is calibrated to 0.6 or greater error. Cheap machines that work fine for the majority. Again not saying your situation or shops are like that. Hope you get it figured. Keep us posted


Thanks for the input, really appreciate all that. The vibration I'm dealing with is beginning around 55/60 on up leading me to believe it's a tire. Its probably going to take another try or two rotating the tire on the wheel again to find a sweet spot. Through tinkering with my prerunner and my dads rubicon (both on bead locks) I've dealt with bent wheels and driveline vibrations from either bad joints or hitting rocks. I hadn't considered the tolerances on individual machines, but I've had good experiences with both shops in the past. In fact, the only shop I've had claim outright that they couldn't balance my tires before was 4wheel parts! They didn't want to balance the 31" tires on my 73 bronco lol. I've run a bunch of different tires (Bfg, General, Falken, Goodyear, Toyo) since my other truck runs a spool in the rear and is pretty hard on tires, plus I like the smell of new tires [emoji12]only tire I've had come back as defective was a single 35" km2 that was replaced under warranty.

The race tires I've mounted and had balanced have been heavy desert tires on bead locks, BFG Baja KR/KRT etc in 35/15, 37/17 and 39/17 from new to race grooved, or even used and they've balanced out just fine. Only downside with those beasts is they can tend flat spot overnight, so it feels like you're driving on square tires for a couple of miles lol!


DamageWagon wrote:What's your tire pressure? Are all your lug nuts tight?

nts is on the ball again with nailing down which axle and what rpm range and characteristics it has. It might take a few weeks of feeling different terrains but you can usually nail exactly which part is causing the problem. Swapping tires between axles is a great start.

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Tire pressure has been varied from 30-50 (max) My dad almost lost a whee on the freeway that was improperly torqued after getting a patch, that's made me paranoid so I always check and double check lug nuts with the torque wrench. I think the manual says 170 ftlbs for our trucks? Swapped front to rear again and it's helped.

What I am curious about is the difference I might notice by switching to the slightly smaller Toyo rt. Smaller diameter, but about 5lbs heavier. Probably not a big enough difference to make much of an impact on mpg though. Went out this weekend and averaged just over 10mpg on our way out, gaining elevation, and just shy of 15mpg coming home.

Got to use the winch to help a fellow Ram owner out!

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SoCal dogs trying to figure out this snow stuff.

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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby nts007 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:46 pm

Nice pics!! Snow and blue sky. Love it. Hope you can get it sorted tire wise. I'm really Curious what it turns out to be
08 ctd--mini max--thuren 3" coils and shackles--4.56 gears and lockers in pw axles--some lights--afe intake system--bd super b turbo--Banks w/m Injection--Dynatrac Balljoints--bilstein 7100s--37" Cooper ST-Maxx--DOR Long arms--Carli track bar--Manual T-case swap--Full PW Under armor--PSC Hydro Assist
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby olyelr » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:13 pm

Nice pics!

Did you swap tires around again before your trip? If so, anything change?
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby DamageWagon » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:27 pm

Love the pics, wish I could make it up there soon!

Do you happen to have pictures of your rock sliders and how they are welded to the frame? I'm about to start on a set. Mounting to the frame looks pretty annoying on this truck.


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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby coder » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:49 pm

Here's the link to the RAM 2016 2500 Truck Wheels, Lug Nuts & Wheel Valves specs. If you convert the 182-202 Newton meters (why they use this I don't know) to foot pounds you end up with a recommended torque range of 134-148 ft. lbs. for your lug nuts. Looks like 170 ft. lbs. is a bit tight be careful you don't break a stud.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/bbg/pdf/2016/docs/intro/twlnwv.pdf
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Redhead Steering Gear
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby TruckerZoom » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:21 am

looking for better tires for my ride. which is better: KO2 or Toyo? any feedback would be appreciated
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Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:48 pm

nts007 wrote:Nice pics!! Snow and blue sky. Love it. Hope you can get it sorted tire wise. I'm really Curious what it turns out to be

olyelr wrote:Nice pics!

Did you swap tires around again before your trip? If so, anything change?


It was a good time! I'm leaning to just swapping to the 35" Toyo RT I have. The ko2 are a bit lighter and were originally intended for my prerunner anyway. If they have a slight shake on that thing, it's not even going to be noticeable when driving through the desert, but it's just annoying on the pw since it gets driven for hours at a time when we head out of town.

I didn't get to swap tires before heading out, but I had just rotated after the Grand Canyon trip. Tires were shaking before then as well.

DamageWagon wrote:Love the pics, wish I could make it up there soon!

Do you happen to have pictures of your rock sliders and how they are welded to the frame? I'm about to start on a set. Mounting to the frame looks pretty annoying on this truck.


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Don't have any good pics on my phone but next time I'm outside I'll grab a few and post them up! Definitely recommend a trip to Alabama hills, lots of cool stuff to see around there!

coder wrote:Here's the link to the RAM 2016 2500 Truck Wheels, Lug Nuts & Wheel Valves specs. If you convert the 182-202 Newton meters (why they use this I don't know) to foot pounds you end up with a recommended torque range of 134-148 ft. lbs. for your lug nuts. Looks like 170 ft. lbs. is a bit tight be careful you don't break a stud.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/bbg/pdf/2016/docs/intro/twlnwv.pdf


Thanks for catching that, I made a mistake and was looking at the Nm before I posted. When I torqued them down it was 130 ft lbs, maybe I'll up it to the 140 range.

TruckerZoom wrote:looking for better tires for my ride. which is better: KO2 or Toyo? any feedback would be appreciated


I haven't driven on the Toyo RT yet but they look to be really nice tires. They are E rated if you tow a lot, that may be a consideration. I like how my ko2 handle on and off road, and they are still super quiet after about 7k miles now. My dad runs 33" Nitto G2 on his 3500 and they are louder than my 37" ko2.


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Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:39 pm

After much deliberation, 35" Toyo Rt on the PW

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35" RT and 37" ko2

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Only have about 200mi on them, but I'm very happy so far. Tire shop maxed them out to 65psi so it felt like a dump truck on the way home. After dropping some pressure, they feel much better. The speedo isn't as far off, they feel a bit "sportier," zero rubbing at full lock, and they make a little more noise than the ko2 did. Not calling them loud, but the ko2 were really quiet for a big tire, quieter than my dads 33" Nitto g2 all terrain. The RT are just barely audible.

It wasn't fun, but I was able to squeeze the spare into the stock location, BARELY.

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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby olyelr » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:44 am

Awesome! Keep us updated on your thoughts between the two.
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby coder » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:05 pm

Looks great, how do you like em so far? In my humble opinion 35" are the best all-around size for stock PW. If you can pick-up a tuner to recalibrate the speedometer it makes a big difference in drivability even with 35's...
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Redhead Steering Gear
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby olyelr » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:22 pm

Hey, is that dirt on the front side of your rear trackbar? :poke:













:lol:
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Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:25 am

coder wrote:Looks great, how do you like em so far? In my humble opinion 35" are the best all-around size for stock PW. If you can pick-up a tuner to recalibrate the speedometer it makes a big difference in drivability even with 35's...


I agree on 35s being better all around, I like that there's no rubbing at all. The 37s looked tough, but I'm planning on towing my ranger around here soon (including spare parts boxes and camping gear, etc) so the E rated 35s seemed like a better choice long term.

The ko2 were definitely a bit cushier over small bumps and cracks in the road, but also felt like they "rolled over" a bit more in the corners if that makes sense. The Toyos feel more precise overall, and feel great in the rain as well. Looking forward to putting some dirt miles on them to see how they stack up against the ko2 there.

I definitely want a tuner to get everything back as close to stock as I can. I'm going to get in touch with a guy on American Adventurist forum that said he may be willing to rent out his tool to reset tpms threshold as well. I just have t been able to log in the past few days for some reason, even tried resetting my password.

olyelr wrote:Hey, is that dirt on the front side of your rear trackbar? :poke:










:lol:


I thought we were OCD friends... you're going to make me go lay under the truck in the rain to wipe that down now? I'll blame that bit of dirt on the trip last weekend [emoji12]

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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby coder » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:05 pm

What air pressure are you running in your new Toyo's?
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Redhead Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:33 am

Im down to 50 psi front and rear. I'm going to try dropping a few more psi and find the sweet spot for empty driving around town. What do you run in your ATs?


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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby DamageWagon » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:13 am

I'm running 40/40 in my 285 MT's. You could probably go a lot lower and still have good ride. I feel like I still have right steering but the little bumps went away. These things have stiff sidewalls though.


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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:37 am

Cool, I'm definitely going down a bit. My dad runs 50 in his truck but it's a good bit heavier with the Cummins in it. I was running 40fr/35rr empty on the street with the ko2.


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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby olyelr » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:55 am

Regardless of which tire you are running, the backs should have considerably less air pressure than the fronts when unloaded.
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Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:11 pm

Just for fun, here is a side by side comparison of the 35" RT (pw aluminum wheel)/37"ko2 (pw aluminum wheel)/37" MTR (pw steel spare wheel) all are unused spres, so they are full tread depth.

Image

Image

37" mtr pw oem steel spare 40psi - 37. 1/4"

37" ko2 pw oem wheel 40psi - 36 1/8 unloaded and 35" mounted on truck rear

35" RT pw oem where 40psi - 34 1/2"
*Will measure mounted height and add here


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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby TankerZak » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:17 am

I have the 35 RTs on a 2016. I run 50/45 and i find it a good balance. I used to run 55/45 on my Duramax. I find i don't need as big of a delta between front and rear unloaded with a PW with Ramboxes. But i also keep chains, winch gear, snatch blocks, tow straps, a good amount of gear in them. I feel its a great balance of wear, grip, MPG, and weight balance. I still have a good quarter to half inch air gap between the axle and my Timbrens. Truck feels well balanced as was a champ in the snow and ice we just had. I tried 45/35 and 45/40 but i was too sticky to the ground and MPG really dropped. I think right around 52/47 is perfect when hot and the tires are rolling.

10 psi delta between front and rear felt better with the heavier diesel and no extra gear and rambox weight in the back. That's my two cents anyway. At least on E rated tires.
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby coder » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:07 pm

yellowranger1 wrote:Im down to 50 psi front and rear. I'm going to try dropping a few more psi and find the sweet spot for empty driving around town. What do you run in your ATs?

I run the same front and rear these pressures have worked well for me and the tire wear is good, I have 35" E load range Toyo AT2's the manufacturer's max psi is 65

- 20 psi (Off-road empty or loaded with camping gear)
- 40 psi (Normal street/daily driving)
- 60 psi (Heavy towing/hauling)
Vehicle: 2007 Power Wagon Quad Cab - Inferno Red
Suspension: Carli 3" Hemi Coils, Carli Control Arms, Carli King 2.5 Pin-Tops, Carli Stainless Steering Stabilizer, Carli Trackbar | Synergy 1" Rear Shackle
Performance: Magnaflow Muffler | Magnaflow Y-Pipe
Wheels/Tires: Toyo AT II's 35x12.5x17
Steering/Drivetrain/Axles: Carli Front Diff Guard | Dynatrac Ball Joints | Redhead Steering Gear
Miscellaneous: Line-X Bedliner | Locker Bypass Switch | Mopar Rock Rails | DieHard Platinum Battery G65 | Performance Friction Brake Pads | Weathertech Digital Fit Mats | Winch Thermal Protection Bypass
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby Reloaderguy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:41 pm

I'm running 35/30 (warm) in 37x12.5R17 Toyo RT's. That is 30/25 cold. With more air, the tires were wearing in the center and small bump compliance was poor. I've run them from 50/45 down to 20/20 and with the current conditions in the PNW I like 35/30 the best.
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Re: Yellowranger1's Blue Wagon

Postby yellowranger1 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:21 pm

Thanks for the pressure input guys, still playing with it little by little. I'm at 45/40, it feels good, but I think they're goi g to end up around 40/35 around town. Really liking the RT after a couple of tanks on them. I'll be going camping this weekend, heading out to the snow again and play on some trails. Excited to see how they do off road!

This also happened... They grow up so fast!

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