Boogie wagon take 2

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DamageWagon
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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by DamageWagon » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:32 pm

I don’t have pricing yet. There’s a Parker facility by my tube supplier.

I don’t think you would need s check valve because you want the accumulator pressure to follow the pump pressure and I think it will not back feed. It’s always being pushed on one way and any excess is just flowing through the pump bypass, I think. I don’t see a scenario where the accumulator would cause flow to go against the pump. It in itself will adjust for pressure change with pump RPM. I think if the accumulator would cause an issue we would see the same issue come from the system as it sits with no accumulator. Just theories here. I don’t know if anyone that’s done this in an automotive application. Even in racing with full hydro you’re seeing trucks turning high flow pumps with engine rpm’s at 8,000+ the whole time.

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by RustyPW » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:04 pm

The accumulator would dampen any pressure spikes or dips in line pressure.
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Mods to the PW; Nerffed Mopar RockRails, Wheel Well Liners, Bushwacker Pocket Fender Flairs, Garvmin dezl 560LMT GPS, Power Wagon Winch Kit, Line X Ultra Bed Liner, PIAA Headlight Bulbs, PIAA 580 Driving Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 Fog Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 ATP Off-Road Lights (135 watt), Locker Bypass, Modifed Rockcrusher Diff Covers, Mopar Utility Bed Rails and Tool Box, Warn Winch Wireless Remote Control, "el-cheapo" Inclinometer, Airaid CAI, Winch TPS Bypass, 35" Toyo's, Mopar Spare Tire Lock, 'T' Steering Linkage, Modifed PSC Steering Brace, P3 Brake Controller, Modifed Fusion "mall crawler" rear bumper , PIAA 1500 Back-Up Lights, 1Ton HEMI Tranny Cooler, Leer 100XR Bed Cap, Factory Tow Mirrors, CenterLine Rims 17x9-5.25 BS, Mag-Hytec Tranny Pan, AutoMeter Gauges, PSC Extreme Hydro Assist Steering, Carli G2 Track Bar, Carli Ball-Joints, Dynatrac FreeSpin Hubs, Snorkel, RCV Axles, EBC Pads & Rotors, Aluminess Front Bumper, 14,000 lb Pul-Pal, 60" Extreme Hi-lift Jack, and more riggin' equipment, Carli Long Travel Air Bags, Bilstein 7100 Shocks - Carli Valving, Carli Control Arms, Thuren 3" SoftRide Springs, Thuren Rear Shackles, MagnaFlow Muffler, Crown Stainless Brake Lines, MORE STUFF COMIN'.

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Colibri
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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by Colibri » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:04 pm

I’m in to try it!
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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Boogie wagon take 2

Post by DamageWagon » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:12 pm

RustyPW wrote:The accumulator would dampen any pressure spikes or dips in line pressure.
That is ‘technically’ what an accumulator is designed for. Because pressure exists with flow it also dumps volume into the system as pressure drops. Technically it stabilizes both flow and pressure, but does hem in unison. There’s a few things an accumulator will do in this system but for the most part I think the only real change that’s going to be seen is an improvement in immediate steering input.

I think the volume of the accumulator will be important. It is likely possible to go too small and have the accumulator help with fast movement initially, and then it run out of fluid and lead to a slow response after a moment. In reality that’s probably not a bad thing. On the flip side if it is too large I worry that something similar would happen, in that if the fluid dumps out of it then the pump is going to have to catch up and fill the accumulator and the steering. I think erring on the smaller side might actually be better.

I think it might just come down to testing. This is an odd application haha.

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by RustyPW » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:32 pm

DamageWagon wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:12 pm
RustyPW wrote:The accumulator would dampen any pressure spikes or dips in line pressure.
That is ‘technically’ what an accumulator is designed for. Because pressure exists with flow it also dumps volume into the system as pressure drops. Technically it stabilizes both flow and pressure, but does hem in unison. There’s a few things an accumulator will do in this system but for the most part I think the only real change that’s going to be seen is an improvement in immediate steering input.

I think the volume of the accumulator will be important. It is likely possible to go too small and have the accumulator help with fast movement initially, and then it run out of fluid and lead to a slow response after a moment. In reality that’s probably not a bad thing. On the flip side if it is too large I worry that something similar would happen, in that if the fluid dumps out of it then the pump is going to have to catch up and fill the accumulator and the steering. I think erring on the smaller side might actually be better.

I think it might just come down to testing. This is an odd application haha.
I know all about accumulators. Delt with them for years. Small as 6 oz to the size of 2, 55 gallon drums with lines pressures from 1psi to 35,000 psi.

I just simplify it.

Here's the thing. Too small, and your not doing a thing. Too big, you're wasting space. Now you have to figure out your back pressure. Too high and the accumulator won't work. Too low and the accumulator fills and ruptures the bladder. Another problem. With the engine running. You fill the reservoir to the full line because the accumulator will take up some volume. It's when you shut the engine off. The volume in the accumulator will over flow the reservoir. Keep that in mind.
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2008 POWER WAGON RC
Mods to the PW; Nerffed Mopar RockRails, Wheel Well Liners, Bushwacker Pocket Fender Flairs, Garvmin dezl 560LMT GPS, Power Wagon Winch Kit, Line X Ultra Bed Liner, PIAA Headlight Bulbs, PIAA 580 Driving Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 Fog Lights (135 watt), PIAA 520 ATP Off-Road Lights (135 watt), Locker Bypass, Modifed Rockcrusher Diff Covers, Mopar Utility Bed Rails and Tool Box, Warn Winch Wireless Remote Control, "el-cheapo" Inclinometer, Airaid CAI, Winch TPS Bypass, 35" Toyo's, Mopar Spare Tire Lock, 'T' Steering Linkage, Modifed PSC Steering Brace, P3 Brake Controller, Modifed Fusion "mall crawler" rear bumper , PIAA 1500 Back-Up Lights, 1Ton HEMI Tranny Cooler, Leer 100XR Bed Cap, Factory Tow Mirrors, CenterLine Rims 17x9-5.25 BS, Mag-Hytec Tranny Pan, AutoMeter Gauges, PSC Extreme Hydro Assist Steering, Carli G2 Track Bar, Carli Ball-Joints, Dynatrac FreeSpin Hubs, Snorkel, RCV Axles, EBC Pads & Rotors, Aluminess Front Bumper, 14,000 lb Pul-Pal, 60" Extreme Hi-lift Jack, and more riggin' equipment, Carli Long Travel Air Bags, Bilstein 7100 Shocks - Carli Valving, Carli Control Arms, Thuren 3" SoftRide Springs, Thuren Rear Shackles, MagnaFlow Muffler, Crown Stainless Brake Lines, MORE STUFF COMIN'.

Moab '10, '12, '14.
Rausch Creek Spring-Fall '11, Spring '12, Summer '13, Summer '14, Summer '15, Summer '16, Summer '17, Summer '18,
Russ NRA Benefactor Member

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by DamageWagon » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:43 pm

I figured you were familiar with accumulators, you’ve been in industry and they’re all over.

I didn’t even think about overflowing the reservoir. Yeah, would need a bigger reservoir. Doing some kind of shutoff valve/solenoid properly is going to be too involved.

A bigger pump is obviously the easy way to go.

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by Colibri » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:56 am

I have a pressurized reservoir with an overflow tank breather. Shouldn’t be a problem at all unless the accumulator is bigger than a quart or so
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by DamageWagon » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:04 am

I think if it’s 1/2 quart that’s doable. The system for sure requires an aftermarket reservoir at that point.

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by Colibri » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Okay fellas, things are about to start happening again. Got the new pump and reservoir ordered along with supplies for making new hoses and fire sleeving them. Just have to pull the gear and have Howe look it over.

Also talked to Ron Davis Radiators today, I’m going to pull the radiator out and ship it to them. They’re going to use it as a template to CAD design a fabricated aluminum racing replacement. Thicker core more fins per inch etc. should be about a 12 week wait, but after it’s made it will be a stock item should any of you 03-09 guys need a badass radiator
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by DamageWagon » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:07 am

I’m speaking with PSC, their preference is for the ram itself to be the stroke limiter in the system, and not the steering stops in the gearbox (which they prefer to leave set at max travel). This makes sense to me and makes it way easier to accurately set. I’m going to figure out the shim set for the ram and then the kits should be good to go.

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Re: Boogie wagon take 2

Post by Colibri » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Nice! I’m definitely wanting to use your ram mounting kit
Central Texas and Houston area
2009 5.7 auto quadcab
Carli 3” coils deaver leafs 3” kings with 4 tube bypass rear and fr/rr hydro bumps
Howe steering pump and gear with hydraulic ram assist
Custom tube bumpers and white knuckle sliders
Creative fab trussed axle. rem polished and cryoed 5.13 gears with arb lockers fr/rr
Sharadon stage 2 545rfe with 3000 stall edge converter
Lots of other stuff lol

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