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Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby Juday » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:53 pm

So, I've become very interested in possibly purchasing one of these roof top tents to fit in the bed. Since a few of you here actually have these, what are some of the brands to look for/avoid while researching?

I plan on fabbing up some type of mount to place the tent in between the tailgate and the toolbox. I'd like to keep it not much higher than the bed rails, but wouldn't be opposed to maybe going a foot, or so, higher in order to carry extra supplies. I think this would be perfect for hooking up the Jeep, or the bass boat, to just get away for the weekend and have a place to sleep.

If you've got pictures of your setups, please share them! I could always use more ideas. :idea:
Image
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby Cactus Red » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:17 pm

I'd recomend testing one before buying one - some people love'm, some hate'm. I'm in the later group.

My friend's that have had one have sold them. The reasons have varied, but the most common is the effort required for access and the limited space for longer stays, or being stuck inside in bad weather.

For the $$$, there are high quality ground tents that offer the same speed on initial setup, yet have a ton more space.

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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby dogcar3 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:25 am

Here was my setup on my truck:

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Here is my current setup on my trailer:
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There is enough room to keep my two heavy sleeping bags inside the tent when it folds up.
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I am overall satisfied with my purchase; although I think I am going to replace the mattress with a memory foam mattress topper. Setup is really not that difficult. The only problem is that I wish the cover had some more room so it would be easier to put on and remove, but then you have to start worrying about flapping in the wind. Only take a couple minutes to put up or take down (and that is just going at a regular pace).

I installed lights in mine, which I would suggest doing if you purchase one (some actually come with a light).

My tent was purchased from here: http://tentsonarack.com/product-categor ... top-tents/
I got the 'Newport'. But, when I purchased mine it was several hundred dollars cheaper then what it is now, which was a big selling point. Also, I see their smaller 'Pasadena' tent is on sale, which is basically the same thing without the changing room. Not sure how much I will actually use the changing room, I imagine it would be used more in bad weather situations. I had great customer service and it seems to be a quality product so far.

So the tent works great for my current setup. Would I buy another one if I had to do it all over again? Not sure, I would have to re-investigate what alternatives there were.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby Juday » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:11 am

I like it! BTW, how did you connect your rack to the bed?
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby dogcar3 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:16 am

On the front, I welded some brackets to the headache rack, then just bolted on. In the rear, I bolted through the bed rail. Pretty simple and easy to put on or remove.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:58 pm

Here's one of my setups - though it's not an RTT. I like this because it's a lot cheaper, easier to transport and store, and gives me more than enough space for what I need. The canvas is breathable, weather resistant, has plenty of windows, and is really simple to set-up. One of the things I like best about this is that it doesn't interfere with my tonneau and it can be set up over whatever is in the bed (it doesn't have a floor). At 6'-7", I'm a pretty big guy and this thing is more than roomy enough for me - the ceiling height is something like 5' from the bed.

Image

I can post more pictures if any of you guys are interested, but I'll say that between this and my tent trailer, getting out of town with some comfort for a little while is more than comfortable.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby dogcar3 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:28 pm

Another option I would consider is a 'tent cot'. Especially if I was just looking for a solo setup.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby SheepdogOutdoorsman » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:37 pm

fyrfytr704 wrote:Here's one of my setups - though it's not an RTT. I like this because it's a lot cheaper, easier to transport and store, and gives me more than enough space for what I need. The canvas is breathable, weather resistant, has plenty of windows, and is really simple to set-up. One of the things I like best about this is that it doesn't interfere with my tonneau and it can be set up over whatever is in the bed (it doesn't have a floor). At 6'-7", I'm a pretty big guy and this thing is more than roomy enough for me - the ceiling height is something like 5' from the bed.

Image

I can post more pictures if any of you guys are interested, but I'll say that between this and my tent trailer, getting out of town with some comfort for a little while is more than comfortable.


More pics! Interested!
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby azracer » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:50 pm

x2
My build 2009 3G
http://forum.powerwagonregistry.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2305

Beginners reading list:
1) Quigley’s Anglo-American Establishment – 354 pages http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/the_a ... shment.pdf
2) Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton 165 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf
3) Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler by Antony C. Sutton 148 pages https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... Hitler.pdf
4) Wall Street and FDR by Antony C. Sutton 177 pages http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125049.pdf
5) Dishonest Money by Joseph Plummer 175 pages http://joeplummer.com/dishonest-money.html
6) None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen 197 pages http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/libra ... y_1971.pdf
David Rockefeller: Memoirs (The story of traitors)
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:54 pm

The tent is made by a company called Kodiak Canvas - they make some great tents. I can't remember the total cost I paid, but you can get em through Amazon for around $300 (a far cry from what a RTT costs, without the storage hassle and weight). My parents have a Kodiak Canvas 12'x14' ground tent and love it. There are probably a lot of people who have never had canvas tents, but I am a big fan. No rain flys, no tears from little abrasions (like nails of your dog), they breathe better in the warm weather, and hold heat better in the cold.

Here are some pictures of it with nothing in the truck. I usually either put a cot in the truck, over my bed rug with a small table (if I'm solo), or I'll put a queen size memory foam topper in it if it's my an the mrs. I'll take some pictures this week of what it looks like packed up - it's not a backpacking tent, but it's small.

Image
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby Ducky's Dad » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:16 pm

Are all rooftop tents the same?

Pretty good video here from an Australian guy. Found this while I was researching awnings to fit to my roof rack. One thing that I have found over the last couple of weeks is that most of the best stuff is made in Australia and South Africa and is difficult to buy in North America, without waiting months for the ship to get here or paying enormous amounts for air freight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhi1nkWYWiU
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby Juday » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:12 am

Hmmm, does that truck bed tent scratch the shit out of your paint in the wind?

It's something to consider, but if I load up a whole bunch of firewood and other materials, that means that I would have to take all that crap out and clean out the bed, just so I can go to sleep. But, the price savings may be worth it?....
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:26 am

Juday wrote:Hmmm, does that truck bed tent scratch the shit out of your paint in the wind?

It's something to consider, but if I load up a whole bunch of firewood and other materials, that means that I would have to take all that crap out and clean out the bed, just so I can go to sleep. But, the price savings may be worth it?....


It hasn't made a scratch at all, and I've had it up when winds were enough to break awnings on people's campers. When you get it snugged down, it's pretty tight and the canvas isn't quite as rough as you'd imagine.

When it comes to having to clean out the bed, you're right. For me, I usualy just keep a small whisk broom in the truck anyway - for floor mats and any crap in the bed. When I put down the memory foam, I clean up a bit, but when I use the cot who cares if the floor is a little messy since I'm not sleeping on it. :D
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby adeluca73 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:19 pm

fyrfytr704 wrote:
Juday wrote:Hmmm, does that truck bed tent scratch the shit out of your paint in the wind?

It's something to consider, but if I load up a whole bunch of firewood and other materials, that means that I would have to take all that crap out and clean out the bed, just so I can go to sleep. But, the price savings may be worth it?....


It hasn't made a scratch at all, and I've had it up when winds were enough to break awnings on people's campers. When you get it snugged down, it's pretty tight and the canvas isn't quite as rough as you'd imagine.

When it comes to having to clean out the bed, you're right. For me, I usualy just keep a small whisk broom in the truck anyway - for floor mats and any crap in the bed. When I put down the memory foam, I clean up a bit, but when I use the cot who cares if the floor is a little messy since I'm not sleeping on it. :D


That's a really nice set-up. I'm a big canvass fan. Duck Canvass wall tents were the only way to spend extended time hunting in AK.

Question, what are all those big C-clamps for around the internal bed rails shown in your interior picture? Those can't be for that tent right?
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby adeluca73 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:43 pm

fyrfytr704 wrote:
Juday wrote:Hmmm, does that truck bed tent scratch the shit out of your paint in the wind?

It's something to consider, but if I load up a whole bunch of firewood and other materials, that means that I would have to take all that crap out and clean out the bed, just so I can go to sleep. But, the price savings may be worth it?....


It hasn't made a scratch at all, and I've had it up when winds were enough to break awnings on people's campers. When you get it snugged down, it's pretty tight and the canvas isn't quite as rough as you'd imagine.

When it comes to having to clean out the bed, you're right. For me, I usualy just keep a small whisk broom in the truck anyway - for floor mats and any crap in the bed. When I put down the memory foam, I clean up a bit, but when I use the cot who cares if the floor is a little messy since I'm not sleeping on it. :D


Another question---I was looking on Amazon, and there's a small and large size, so can I assume with the 6'4" bed, the small would still fit the PW bed? Also, I was reading some reviews and they recommend setting the tent up in the driveway when it arrives and then hose it down and let it dry before taking it down and putting it back in the bag. Did you do that and what does that do to the tent--break it in?
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:20 am

adeluca73 wrote:
fyrfytr704 wrote:
Juday wrote:Hmmm, does that truck bed tent scratch the shit out of your paint in the wind?

It's something to consider, but if I load up a whole bunch of firewood and other materials, that means that I would have to take all that crap out and clean out the bed, just so I can go to sleep. But, the price savings may be worth it?....


It hasn't made a scratch at all, and I've had it up when winds were enough to break awnings on people's campers. When you get it snugged down, it's pretty tight and the canvas isn't quite as rough as you'd imagine.

When it comes to having to clean out the bed, you're right. For me, I usualy just keep a small whisk broom in the truck anyway - for floor mats and any crap in the bed. When I put down the memory foam, I clean up a bit, but when I use the cot who cares if the floor is a little messy since I'm not sleeping on it. :D


That's a really nice set-up. I'm a big canvass fan. Duck Canvass wall tents were the only way to spend extended time hunting in AK.

Question, what are all those big C-clamps for around the internal bed rails shown in your interior picture? Those can't be for that tent right?


Adeluca,

The c-clamps are for the tent. The bars that support the tent fabric are arched, and are attached on each side to a base that clamps to the top of the bed rail. Normally, the small c-clamps that come with the kit will work, but in my case, the rails for my tonneau cover are too deep for the small clamps, so I put in some 4" clamps and notched my rail for the tonneau so that they clamps don't stick out past the rail. They're easy to take on and off, and do a good job of keeping things buttoned down, especially when there's a good amount of wind. I'll try to get some pics up for you of the base that clamps to the top of the bed rail so that you can see how it works. just a note for you, if you have the Ramboxes, I don't think that this would work for you.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:31 am

adeluca73 wrote:
fyrfytr704 wrote:
Juday wrote:Hmmm, does that truck bed tent scratch the shit out of your paint in the wind?

It's something to consider, but if I load up a whole bunch of firewood and other materials, that means that I would have to take all that crap out and clean out the bed, just so I can go to sleep. But, the price savings may be worth it?....


It hasn't made a scratch at all, and I've had it up when winds were enough to break awnings on people's campers. When you get it snugged down, it's pretty tight and the canvas isn't quite as rough as you'd imagine.

When it comes to having to clean out the bed, you're right. For me, I usualy just keep a small whisk broom in the truck anyway - for floor mats and any crap in the bed. When I put down the memory foam, I clean up a bit, but when I use the cot who cares if the floor is a little messy since I'm not sleeping on it. :D


Another question---I was looking on Amazon, and there's a small and large size, so can I assume with the 6'4" bed, the small would still fit the PW bed? Also, I was reading some reviews and they recommend setting the tent up in the driveway when it arrives and then hose it down and let it dry before taking it down and putting it back in the bag. Did you do that and what does that do to the tent--break it in?


You'll definitely want the small size tent - it fits beds between 5'-5" and 6'-6." The larger tent is for trucks with an 8' bed. It's definitely a good idea to set the tent up at least once, before you head out to use it. The first setup takes a lot longer than the subsequent ones because you'll be learning how it all goes together. For example, I set mine up and marked out (on the base that the arch poles attach to) where the clamps go, and which side is driver and passenger. That way, when I go to set it up I know exactly where things go, without doing any measuring or trail and error. One of the other things that I learned is that making the tent "level" or even from side to side is easy if you pay attention to it. The first time i set it up, it had some lean. It wasn't hard to correct and wouldn't change much, but it looked funny. Now that I've set it up more than once, I can set it up in less than 10 min by myself, and less than 5 with a second set of hands - the part that takes the longest is clamping the base to the bed rail.

In terms of the wetting the tent with the hose, that's another good idea, it's called seasoning the canvas (breaking it in is a good way to put it). Canvas works as a great water barrier because the fibers swell, when they're wet, and that closes off any point of entry for water. This isn't something that you can see, but getting the tent seasoned helps to make sure that it's ready for anything the first time you sleep in it. You won't want to unleash a fire hose on the tent, or try to soak it all the way through - think of something like setting it up with a sprinkler going over it. Not only does this season the canvas, but it also helps you to know that there aren't any leaks. This may be obvious, but I'll say it anyway - make sure that when you season it, you let it dry completely. Putting away a wet tent isn't good for any material. :)

Let me know if you have any other questions. I am happy to help. And for what it's worth, I have no relationship to the tent manufacturer. I just have had more than one of their tents and have had great experiences with them.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby adeluca73 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:49 pm

Awesome awesome --thanks so much for the info. You've really helped me out here. I was struggling between going with another Leer topper or the Diamondback HD. This tent solves why I'd consider another Leer & I can go with what I really want, the Diamondback HD, which I can remove when it's time to install the tent.

No Ramboxes for me either, I need all the bed space!
2014 Ram PW SLT: Two tone Flame Red & Black
Completed Mods: Ram door sill guards, Front air deflector, WeatherTech slimline window deflectors, DiamondBack HD cover coated w/ Line-X, Mufflex MagnaFlow muffler & Resonator delete, Opti-Coat Pro 2.0, DeeZee tailgate strut, DeeZee ¼" fitted bed mat, Factor-55: FlatLink winch hook/Shorty Strap 3.0/Hitchlink 2.5, Warn Wireless Winch Remote, Locker by-pass, AEM dry filter, Truxedo LED bed lights wired into RamBox Connector, WhiteKnuckle sliders w/ full-length diamond plate coated in Line-X, Purple Cranium rear diff guard, AEV front/rear diff cover, AEV RAI w/ pre-filter, AEV ProCal (Bootleg'd), DOR Steering Box Brace, Phillips Hi intensity LEDs in cargo lamps & back-ups, triple anti-hop shocks, Truxx PW specific front 1.5" level, AAM 4.88's, custom black-out work, Line-X front/rear bumpers & wheel flares, 37" Nitto Ridge Grapplers, Plasti-dip PW wheels Black w/ Gunmetal metalizer, FilterMag kit, AMP Research BedStep
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby adeluca73 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:50 pm

Do you use a ladder or stool to climb in & out?
2014 Ram PW SLT: Two tone Flame Red & Black
Completed Mods: Ram door sill guards, Front air deflector, WeatherTech slimline window deflectors, DiamondBack HD cover coated w/ Line-X, Mufflex MagnaFlow muffler & Resonator delete, Opti-Coat Pro 2.0, DeeZee tailgate strut, DeeZee ¼" fitted bed mat, Factor-55: FlatLink winch hook/Shorty Strap 3.0/Hitchlink 2.5, Warn Wireless Winch Remote, Locker by-pass, AEM dry filter, Truxedo LED bed lights wired into RamBox Connector, WhiteKnuckle sliders w/ full-length diamond plate coated in Line-X, Purple Cranium rear diff guard, AEV front/rear diff cover, AEV RAI w/ pre-filter, AEV ProCal (Bootleg'd), DOR Steering Box Brace, Phillips Hi intensity LEDs in cargo lamps & back-ups, triple anti-hop shocks, Truxx PW specific front 1.5" level, AAM 4.88's, custom black-out work, Line-X front/rear bumpers & wheel flares, 37" Nitto Ridge Grapplers, Plasti-dip PW wheels Black w/ Gunmetal metalizer, FilterMag kit, AMP Research BedStep
Next Mods: Thuren: {Coils, Track Bar, Boggie Bumps, King 2.5's shocks} , on-board air, HID low CANBUS replacement, LED HI, BD LED fogs
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:49 pm

adeluca73 wrote:Awesome awesome --thanks so much for the info. You've really helped me out here. I was struggling between going with another Leer topper or the Diamondback HD. This tent solves why I'd consider another Leer & I can go with what I really want, the Diamondback HD, which I can remove when it's time to install the tent.

No Ramboxes for me either, I need all the bed space!

It's my pleasure... glad I could help. Those HD covers look like an awesome way to go. If you get a chance, post a review of it when you get it on the truck.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:50 pm

adeluca73 wrote:Do you use a ladder or stool to climb in & out?

I am a pretty tall guy (6'-7") so I don't really need one but the Mrs. is 5'-5" so we use a small step ladder with 2 steps to make it easy for her to get in and out of.
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby adeluca73 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:11 pm

fyrfytr704 wrote:
adeluca73 wrote:Awesome awesome --thanks so much for the info. You've really helped me out here. I was struggling between going with another Leer topper or the Diamondback HD. This tent solves why I'd consider another Leer & I can go with what I really want, the Diamondback HD, which I can remove when it's time to install the tent.

No Ramboxes for me either, I need all the bed space!

It's my pleasure... glad I could help. Those HD covers look like an awesome way to go. If you get a chance, post a review of it when you get it on the truck.


Copy--I will post a full review of the HD when it arrives...4-6 wk lead. 6'7" WOW jealous. If only, I could've gone PRO :rofl:
2014 Ram PW SLT: Two tone Flame Red & Black
Completed Mods: Ram door sill guards, Front air deflector, WeatherTech slimline window deflectors, DiamondBack HD cover coated w/ Line-X, Mufflex MagnaFlow muffler & Resonator delete, Opti-Coat Pro 2.0, DeeZee tailgate strut, DeeZee ¼" fitted bed mat, Factor-55: FlatLink winch hook/Shorty Strap 3.0/Hitchlink 2.5, Warn Wireless Winch Remote, Locker by-pass, AEM dry filter, Truxedo LED bed lights wired into RamBox Connector, WhiteKnuckle sliders w/ full-length diamond plate coated in Line-X, Purple Cranium rear diff guard, AEV front/rear diff cover, AEV RAI w/ pre-filter, AEV ProCal (Bootleg'd), DOR Steering Box Brace, Phillips Hi intensity LEDs in cargo lamps & back-ups, triple anti-hop shocks, Truxx PW specific front 1.5" level, AAM 4.88's, custom black-out work, Line-X front/rear bumpers & wheel flares, 37" Nitto Ridge Grapplers, Plasti-dip PW wheels Black w/ Gunmetal metalizer, FilterMag kit, AMP Research BedStep
Next Mods: Thuren: {Coils, Track Bar, Boggie Bumps, King 2.5's shocks} , on-board air, HID low CANBUS replacement, LED HI, BD LED fogs
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby cruz » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:29 am

Seasoning your tent is good advice, and while your at it don't forget the seams. Unless you tear a hole in the fabric, the seams are where most leaks will happen. You can get seam sealant just about anywhere and its easy to apply.

For a bed that's pretty versatile, these work well in the bed of the truck, on the ground in a tent, on a living room floor ...
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Colemanr ... _l=Unknown
2005 Power Wagon
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby fyrfytr704 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:42 pm

cruz wrote:Seasoning your tent is good advice, and while your at it don't forget the seams. Unless you tear a hole in the fabric, the seams are where most leaks will happen. You can get seam sealant just about anywhere and its easy to apply.

For a bed that's pretty versatile, these work well in the bed of the truck, on the ground in a tent, on a living room floor ...
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Colemanr ... _l=Unknown


Very true about the seams... I also carry Tear-Aid Five-Foot Patch Rolls (make sure you get Type A) - these things can repair almost any material, other than vinyl. The air mattresses are great, as cruz said, except in the cold. One of these is a godsend in cold weather camping.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Deluxe-Camp-Beds/732419.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dbed%2Broll%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=bed+roll&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
2008 PW - stock with the exception of CAI, Superchips tune, LED tail lights, bed liner, tonneau cover, bed rug, swing case, and a black magic e-fan with override switch (for now). Now accepting donations for lift and tires!
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Re: Roof Top Tents - Suggestions

Postby adeluca73 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:33 am

cruz wrote:Seasoning your tent is good advice, and while your at it don't forget the seams. Unless you tear a hole in the fabric, the seams are where most leaks will happen. You can get seam sealant just about anywhere and its easy to apply.

For a bed that's pretty versatile, these work well in the bed of the truck, on the ground in a tent, on a living room floor ...
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Colemanr ... _l=Unknown


I actually have that same coleman battery (4 D cell) camp bed, and it's ok. I may try the one FYRFYT listed below,,,,got some good reviews
2014 Ram PW SLT: Two tone Flame Red & Black
Completed Mods: Ram door sill guards, Front air deflector, WeatherTech slimline window deflectors, DiamondBack HD cover coated w/ Line-X, Mufflex MagnaFlow muffler & Resonator delete, Opti-Coat Pro 2.0, DeeZee tailgate strut, DeeZee ¼" fitted bed mat, Factor-55: FlatLink winch hook/Shorty Strap 3.0/Hitchlink 2.5, Warn Wireless Winch Remote, Locker by-pass, AEM dry filter, Truxedo LED bed lights wired into RamBox Connector, WhiteKnuckle sliders w/ full-length diamond plate coated in Line-X, Purple Cranium rear diff guard, AEV front/rear diff cover, AEV RAI w/ pre-filter, AEV ProCal (Bootleg'd), DOR Steering Box Brace, Phillips Hi intensity LEDs in cargo lamps & back-ups, triple anti-hop shocks, Truxx PW specific front 1.5" level, AAM 4.88's, custom black-out work, Line-X front/rear bumpers & wheel flares, 37" Nitto Ridge Grapplers, Plasti-dip PW wheels Black w/ Gunmetal metalizer, FilterMag kit, AMP Research BedStep
Next Mods: Thuren: {Coils, Track Bar, Boggie Bumps, King 2.5's shocks} , on-board air, HID low CANBUS replacement, LED HI, BD LED fogs
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